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[Music]

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greetings and welcome back to liminal

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frames i am your host nathan and joined

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by my co-host exo academian great to

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have you along with us on the show

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this will be our 12th episode which

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makes me excited to say

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hard to believe we're already at 12. i

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feel like we just started the show

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yesterday but exo how have you been and

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what's going on

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i'm doing well thank you and um yeah 12

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episodes that's not bad i was thinking

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about that the other day we uh we forgot

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to celebrate when we got to double

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digits you know because i've got the

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zero before the numbers right so we're

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up to zero one two and remember i said i

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saw us getting to one hundred so uh

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we only got you know a few

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a few dozen to go

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um but yeah happy to be here and uh

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excited for some great clips and uh

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then uh sort of pulling out some great

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uh insights from those

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yeah for sure we uh we're we've really

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enjoyed this format i think we're gonna

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stick with it for the time being

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uh it allows us to grab interesting

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little bits of content from across the

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community and topics of interest and

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kind of turn them over and examine them

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in the way that we do

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and hopefully put it together in some

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sort of cohesive

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narrative and it's on that

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word that we're going to dwell today uh

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this show is really all about narrative

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construction and what what what that

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means for how we approach

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uh

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different topics how we approach things

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that we hear in the news uh

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you know how how the narratives that we

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tell ourselves

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really shape our lives and the stories

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that

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imbue with meaning and so

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we're gonna go through some clips here

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some things that folks will be familiar

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with and and some that you may not be

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and just kind of look at different ways

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that they

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shape interpretation

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and also think about how we ourselves

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are

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primed

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as we approach the content

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and just as we are primed and kind of

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prepared before we uh listen to the

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content how that shapes

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what we hear and what we understand and

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and kind of the directions that we go

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with it

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uh exo what are your thoughts on this uh

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topic overall

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yeah i i love this topic this is

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something that i return to over and over

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again on point of convergence and i know

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it's a pretty big

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issue for us to identify too to

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highlight to people

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i like to say that um every

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event is an interpreted experience

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in other words there's no way to have

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the experience of an event and not

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interpret it through some sort of

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framework that's just the nature of what

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it is to be a human being

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alive and trying to make sense of the

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world and things that happened to us

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of course with the ufo phenomenon and

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you know general paranormality

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uh that's that's a big issue is how do

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we make sense of this just because we

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don't have these pre-existing frameworks

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that work really well that that are at

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least really familiar to the the general

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public

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but it's not just the ufo phenomenon

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that that applies to it also applies to

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you know ancient monolithic structures

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and how we interpret that and history of

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humanity and uh angels and demons and

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spirituality and

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all of these uh different sort of meta

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topics apply here in terms of trying to

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make sense of experiences especially

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when they're they're beyond the norm by

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the way even the word norm is of course

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a framework

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it's interpreted

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you're so right about that yeah so let's

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um let's take a listen to this first one

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here so let me set this up and we can uh

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critique my setup of this as well but

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we're going to listen to a little clip

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here

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that

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discusses the

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sort of growing emerging threat to

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our military and where it operates

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a new report about navy destroyers off

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the coast of california is making waves

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a report posted on the website the drive

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cited ship logs saying that several

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drones hovered over those navy

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destroyers back in 2019

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drones drones drones

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it's all about the drones in fact we

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duped everyone who's listening this

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entire episode is about drones

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i kid but it could be uh so

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uh the reason why i kind of set it up

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that way

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is because i think it does frame the way

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that you've listened to

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that clip it certainly frames the way

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that those

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uh

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tv personalities i think is who they

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were gonna describe the event

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uh but here we are recounting

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something that took place

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uh near one of our sort of naval

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training ranges and there were

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craft in the sky uh

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just sort of

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uh neutrally or unambiguously uh labeled

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as drones

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all right i should say ambiguously

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labeled as drones and the ship log

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counts them as drones and that must be

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it that must be the only explanation to

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it we're just operating out here we're

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doing the things that we do and

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uh nothing else to see here other than

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we've got a lot of you know maybe

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commercial dji phantoms you know flying

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around our our aircraft carriers that's

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that's what that's what i hear when i

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think of that

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what about you yeah it's uh it's funny

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this this term drone just become the new

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catch-all phrase that we just insert

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whenever we don't know what it is right

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so if it's if it's up in the air and

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it's doing kind of strange things and

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it's not a

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an airplane or a helicopter

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we we just insert drone

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now this is really interesting because

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uh one of the things i studied in my

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history of studying many things is uh

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nlp which stands for neuro-linguistic

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programming

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and it's all about

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how the words we use not just the words

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we use also how we deliver them and body

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language and things but it largely has

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to do with the way we use language

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to control how people think about

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certain issues and of course

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the intelligence community and the

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government are very very familiar with

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this they spend

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a lot they spend a lot of time and money

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figuring out how to pitch something how

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to construct a narrative

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so as to control the narrative you know

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they try to get out ahead of it

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one of the

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things i've heard from various sources

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is that

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there's debates around whether or not to

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address the ufo phenomenon in some sort

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of more public way even by political

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leaders

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and of course the reason why they're

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having that debate is because as things

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seemingly ramp up their concern is if

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they don't get out in front of events

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that are becoming more and more clear in

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public that they're going to lose

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control of the narrative so by getting

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out ahead and prepping people and

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already you know pointing people in a

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certain direction of interpretation

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you're hoping to control the entire

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rollout of disclosure you know

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potentially

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but drones is interesting because

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as you heard in that news report

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the average person in the public let's

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not think about those of us really

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invested in this topic but the average

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person in the public joe public hears

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that and they go

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that's not that exciting i mean drones

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you know they're there's these things

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that we now fly that you know everybody

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can get one you know you can order one

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online or whatever i'm sure

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uh you know foreign adversaries have

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plenty of them and they're more advanced

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so it just sort of like allows you to

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insert a term which takes all of the

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mystery away in some ways like it it you

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know it divorces the experience or the

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event from the actual mystery or the

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intrigue even right it really makes it

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boring and safe and tame in some ways

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and that's what's most interesting to me

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whenever we see

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official sources changing terminology i

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think we should pay close attention

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sometimes i think it's done deliberately

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and sometimes i think it's done

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unintentionally like for instance for

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news outlets

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they generally don't like to report on

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the ufo phenomenon yet even though

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there's quite a bit of evidence for it

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obviously

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and so they're quick to want to use

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terms that make it safe and tame and uh

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and easily consumable by by the general

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public so that's what i would say about

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the importance of language pay very

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close attention to why it's used you

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know even this this expression

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an unidentified aerial phenomena as

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opposed to ufo right like

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really thinking about why that change

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was made

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there are some pragmatic reasons but i

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think there are also some

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you know reasons that are in accord with

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neuro-linguistic programming that also

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apply there as well

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yeah definitely the word drone

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is

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such a banal word too you know it's uh

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it almost has a

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a blank quality to it you know it's um

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you know insert drone and and your brain

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not only thinks about exactly what you

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described commercial drones that we're

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familiar with

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but it's a negative word

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in in a social context you know to to

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drone

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on

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i just tuned out oh well this is an

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interesting person uh or they're very

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annoying uh i'm literally creating a

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mental void to just jettison this

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individual from my evening because it

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was that boring so you know that believe

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it or not that same uh

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sort of similarity or uh you know where

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we're pulling in

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that use case of the word does also play

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into how we hear that story our brains

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are going to use

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both of those constructions uh they're

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going to use the the familiar flying

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thing and they're going to use the the

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social sort of conversational thing and

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and and will play with them and kind of

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interact with them obviously the one

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that you're thinking of more cognitively

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is the flying one but there is that kind

284
00:10:11,829 --> 00:10:10,160
of subconscious component to it as well

285
00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:11,839
and and i find this interesting too

286
00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:13,360
because the

287
00:10:16,389 --> 00:10:15,200
the use of the word drone

288
00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:16,399
even if we're thinking of it from a

289
00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:18,480
commercial context you know what are we

290
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:19,839
really talking about here we're talking

291
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:22,720
about some guy uh who's on vacation at

292
00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:24,399
the beach who's just getting some

293
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:26,720
vacation photos with their drone and it

294
00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:28,800
just happens to travel you know miles

295
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,120
offshore and he loses contact with it

296
00:10:34,150 --> 00:10:32,959
but it's you know circling an aircraft

297
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,160
carrier is that we're thinking about

298
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:36,720
here are we thinking about adversarial

299
00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:38,640
drones that obviously can stay aloft for

300
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:40,079
much longer

301
00:10:43,350 --> 00:10:41,839
and operate in different altitudes you

302
00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:43,360
know just sort of

303
00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:45,279
circling our aircraft carriers with

304
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:48,079
impunity uh i think that explanation is

305
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:51,440
also incredibly strange and troubling

306
00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:53,360
uh you know you can't

307
00:10:58,470 --> 00:10:54,720
if we were to let's put it this way if

308
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,480
you were to have a chinese or russian

309
00:11:02,310 --> 00:11:00,399
jet fighter circling

310
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:02,320
an aircraft carrier you can believe that

311
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:03,519
there would be some

312
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:06,800
repercussions to that behavior uh either

313
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:09,680
physical or diplomatic there would be

314
00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:11,920
some sort of action taken by our

315
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:15,360
government against that activity uh for

316
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:17,440
that to be completely unknown and for us

317
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:19,040
to know like literally zero nothing

318
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:20,640
about it where it came from where it's

319
00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:21,760
going

320
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:23,920
i think really uh you know is a little

321
00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:24,880
bit

322
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:27,040
perplexing at least to me um could it be

323
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:28,640
drones sure but it's a it's an

324
00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:31,279
interesting use of the word and it does

325
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:33,040
as you say kind of give the listener a

326
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,720
pass to kind of

327
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:36,399
just walk away there's nothing to see

328
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,680
here

329
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,360
yeah like for example

330
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,040
even for myself you know i'm not an

331
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:43,360
aircraft expert or an aviation expert so

332
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,640
when people say

333
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,800
well this particular drone is behaving

334
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,399
or this particular

335
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,399
aerial phenomena is acting in a way

336
00:11:54,310 --> 00:11:52,480
that's not typical of you know modern

337
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:54,320
drone technology i don't really know i

338
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:55,600
can't really say either way you know

339
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:56,399
what i mean

340
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:57,839
i don't have

341
00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,160
a lot of intel around how long they can

342
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:01,920
stay aloft how you know how fast they

343
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,600
can fly things like that

344
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:05,360
and for sure the general public has a

345
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:06,959
lot less information on it than i do or

346
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:08,000
that you do

347
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:10,240
so yeah exactly gives them a pass it

348
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:12,000
kind of quickly turns into the kind of

349
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,839
boring drone uh that you referred to

350
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:17,279
but you're absolutely right that if we

351
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:19,920
were saying you know mig-29s were you

352
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:20,800
know

353
00:12:25,269 --> 00:12:23,279
circling our aircraft off the coast of

354
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,279
san diego or something people be like

355
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:27,040
what you know like

356
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,279
that that and it's all about connotation

357
00:12:32,230 --> 00:12:31,360
you know because uh drones could be you

358
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,240
know

359
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:34,560
uh they could have weaponry right they

360
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,720
could do various things uh they could be

361
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,959
spying whatever but for some reason that

362
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:40,240
that term

363
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,320
just sounds like you so say so banal

364
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:44,880
that um we just give it a pass and it's

365
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:46,079
so

366
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:52,629
just

367
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:57,440
people i think is what it does and

368
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:59,519
what i'm suggesting is that the powers

369
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:01,279
that be that or and i don't just mean

370
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:03,360
the government i mean news outlets as

371
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:06,079
well that just don't really want to give

372
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,000
fuel to this fire to this part of the

373
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:10,560
the story will insert that term because

374
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:12,079
number one they'll they'll claim maybe

375
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:13,680
it's journalistically

376
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:15,680
safer because it's uh it's not jumping

377
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:18,160
to conclusions but at the same time like

378
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:19,920
you say it gives the the the public a

379
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:22,480
pass and so events that would otherwise

380
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,320
be shocking i think

381
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:26,399
uh to the collective consciousness just

382
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,920
aren't they're just given a pass because

383
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:29,760
of this

384
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,720
yeah think about how that clip would be

385
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:34,720
different if they did not use that word

386
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,279
and instead use the word ufo

387
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:39,199
uh just you know unidentified flying

388
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,480
objects weren't even talking about

389
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:42,720
anything alien here just unidentified

390
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:45,279
flying objects circling aircraft in our

391
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:47,199
training ranges

392
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,480
just the use of that term and acronym

393
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:53,040
totally transforms what people hear

394
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,639
when they're listening to that story and

395
00:13:58,629 --> 00:13:56,240
in fact there would be some outlets that

396
00:14:01,910 --> 00:13:58,639
would never run that story because of

397
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:01,920
how it would paint them by in context by

398
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:04,720
association uh and so it's much easier

399
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:06,560
it's more it's safer it's a better way

400
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:09,199
to put it to use the word drone in in

401
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:11,519
the context of the news story because it

402
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,399
doesn't

403
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:14,240
it's not that network is not having to

404
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,079
put their neck out and kind of make an

405
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,720
editorialized statement that that the

406
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,279
baggage of ufo brings to the

407
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:23,199
conversation

408
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:25,920
but you know you'll notice that those

409
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:28,240
people who do go on to these shows

410
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:30,720
who are who are engaged in this topic

411
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:32,959
obviously chris mellon

412
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:35,360
uh lou elizondo who have had multiple

413
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,480
appearances

414
00:14:40,470 --> 00:14:38,639
uh sean cahill as well when they're

415
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,480
interviewed about these incidents you

416
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:42,480
know they they do try to shift that

417
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,040
narrative conversation a little bit

418
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:47,760
uh to where they they

419
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,760
subtly confront this

420
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:52,000
uh you know sort of conception that it's

421
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:55,120
just you know commercial or adversarial

422
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,440
uh you know flying fit fixed wing or

423
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:00,160
rotary blade technology you know kind of

424
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:02,959
zipping around our areas so it's it you

425
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:04,720
know all of this points to the fact that

426
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:05,680
we

427
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:11,440
and our history in in the ways in which

428
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:14,160
we tell stories the way in which we

429
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:16,639
present information and then also the

430
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:20,000
way that we absorb it and so i think you

431
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:21,680
know one of the takeaways that i hope we

432
00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:22,480
get

433
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:24,880
kind of through on this on this episode

434
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:27,199
is that no matter what we are listening

435
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:28,480
to

436
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,040
and consuming whether that be on on the

437
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,120
news or youtube or whatever it may be on

438
00:15:37,189 --> 00:15:35,279
even on our own podcast that we have

439
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,199
this ability to

440
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:39,279
kind of examine

441
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:40,480
the

442
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,399
in our own minds

443
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,560
that that allows us to go from listening

444
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:48,720
to what we hear to a conclusion

445
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:50,480
and and i think we want to be able to

446
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:52,079
look at that conclusion and say okay how

447
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,360
would i conclude differently if i was

448
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,680
examining that from a from a different

449
00:16:01,829 --> 00:16:00,240
vantage point and and and then

450
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:01,839
do that over and over again until

451
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:04,720
something hopefully something more clear

452
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:07,360
begins to emerge uh if you if you look

453
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:09,199
at it across a lot of different

454
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:10,320
incidents

455
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:12,399
yeah and i would just again add to that

456
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:14,240
by saying

457
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:16,240
don't ever assume that there's a a

458
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:17,759
neutral

459
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:19,759
way of telling a story there there never

460
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,440
is there's no such thing we're always

461
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:22,800
going to

462
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,440
insert interpretations and

463
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:27,199
try to direct people's attention by the

464
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,560
words we use especially when they're

465
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,240
coming from official sources again that

466
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:32,079
could be journalistic sources or

467
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,160
government sources or whatever and to

468
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,720
give you an example also in line of what

469
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:38,160
you were mentioning with if the term had

470
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,920
been ufo instead

471
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:42,000
so a friend of mine you know has put

472
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,120
together a a master's and a phd program

473
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:47,839
in exo studies right and this friend of

474
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:50,480
mine sean talked about trying to get

475
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:53,120
this program approved in his school

476
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:54,800
and this is a school that already does

477
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,800
some really out there topics right you

478
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:58,880
can get a master's or a phd in things

479
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,120
like subtle energy and transpersonal

480
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,279
psychology things that are considered

481
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:05,360
out there by the mainstream right

482
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:07,199
and yet the same people taking those

483
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:08,559
programs

484
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,720
complained when sean's program came

485
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:12,000
online because they said well we don't

486
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:13,600
want to be associated with ufos and

487
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,520
aliens come on let's just stick to

488
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,959
subtle energy and transpersonal

489
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:19,280
psychology and you know psi phenomena

490
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,160
right so

491
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:22,480
that's a perfect example of how people

492
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,039
have these uh you know interpretations

493
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:27,839
these associations these connotations

494
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:29,440
around these terms and it completely

495
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:30,880
changes how

496
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:33,760
the story is heard in people's minds

497
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,960
yeah i'm glad you brought that up and

498
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:36,720
let me just attack onto that real quick

499
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:38,400
before we go to this next clip that

500
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:39,679
there's

501
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,160
we all are

502
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:43,760
exercising

503
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:46,799
our credentials our credibility in the

504
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:49,039
circles that we find ourselves and so we

505
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:50,480
we signal

506
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,520
our credibility uh to each other

507
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,440
in a variety of ways

508
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,120
so if you're in academia you're

509
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:59,840
signaling your credibility through the

510
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:01,840
degrees which you have earned

511
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,960
the

512
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:04,559
fields that you study

513
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,320
uh the number of papers that you've

514
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:08,480
published and where you publish them all

515
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:11,200
of these things you are going to wear on

516
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:12,640
your sleeve

517
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,799
you want it to be seen so that others

518
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:17,039
who are listening to you

519
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:18,640
automatically before they've heard

520
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:20,320
anything that you have said

521
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:22,480
lend an element of credibility to what

522
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:24,720
you're about to say and this is also

523
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,160
true in in the circles of ufology and

524
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:31,039
phenomenology you know those who have

525
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:34,400
had uh experiences and experiences that

526
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:35,039
are

527
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:38,880
uh you know extreme uh and and seem you

528
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:40,559
know fairly verifiable maybe they had

529
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,799
another witness or whatever those people

530
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:45,200
have greater credibility than those who

531
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:46,640
do not who've had only an experience

532
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,240
that they've had and no one else has

533
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:50,720
been able to verify uh the military you

534
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:52,960
know if they've had an experience not

535
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,120
only with a pilot but also with a sensor

536
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:56,480
system

537
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:58,080
wow the credibility there is kind of

538
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:59,679
through the roof

539
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:01,600
and so you know we need to think about

540
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,320
the these things because they do affect

541
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:07,200
the way in which we uh digest absorb

542
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,520
information that is presented to us and

543
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:11,760
i'm not saying that they shouldn't they

544
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:12,720
should

545
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:15,039
because you know

546
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:17,600
i'm not an expert in aviation i can't

547
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:20,160
fly you know a multi-million dollar

548
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:21,919
fighter jet i don't spend a lot of time

549
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,919
up in the air looking at things if

550
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:25,200
someone who's done all of that and

551
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,400
they're telling me they're seeing things

552
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:27,840
that they cannot explain with all of

553
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:29,600
their experience i do take that very

554
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:31,760
seriously and i also take it more

555
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:34,559
seriously if our sensor systems these

556
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:37,120
incredibly expensive systems are are

557
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,720
examined the same way let me just stop

558
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:40,080
you there my friend because neil

559
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:42,400
degrasse tyson said we

560
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:44,240
has already dismissed all those so we're

561
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:45,120
okay

562
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:47,039
let's just like leave that aside that's

563
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,640
a that's a fair point i'm glad you

564
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,120
brought our good friend up uh

565
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:53,840
i wish him all the best um so yes

566
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,080
but that's a great example uh of where

567
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,480
we have competing credibility at play in

568
00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:00,320
the public conversation that's probably

569
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:01,360
why you brought that up so you know

570
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:02,640
you've got you've got these different

571
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,159
voices where now we're having to wrestle

572
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:06,880
with this issue on one side we have this

573
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,360
uh well-known popular scientist on the

574
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,520
other side we have a government uh who's

575
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:13,520
telling us certain things and our

576
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,880
specialists within that government

577
00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:16,480
telling us certain things

578
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,480
all of these things you know to distill

579
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:20,960
it down they come down and they really

580
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,520
go into the blender uh the smoothie if

581
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,240
you will that we all kind of consume

582
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:28,640
absolutely and i'm glad you went on this

583
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:30,640
uh this tangent here because i think it

584
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:31,919
is really important for us to highlight

585
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:35,120
this before we go into the next clip

586
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:37,039
you know in that specific specific case

587
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:38,960
you know neil degrasse tyson had the you

588
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:39,760
know

589
00:20:42,789 --> 00:20:41,679
the gall to come on and say he just

590
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,799
thought this was an example of

591
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:44,480
confirmation bias

592
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:46,080
and then he was told by some of these

593
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,360
pilots you know

594
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:49,600
listen i'm an f-18 pilot who's spent

595
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,640
years

596
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:52,720
making my only focus identifying

597
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,720
whatever's in the sky knowing what it is

598
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,720
what it's not being

599
00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:58,559
being not only taught classes in

600
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,280
cognitive bias but having actually lead

601
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,120
classes for other people where i

602
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:05,280
actually teach about cognitive bias in

603
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:06,720
other words i know exactly what

604
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,240
cognitive bias is i do have my filters

605
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,559
you know lined up to look out for that

606
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,640
and i'm still telling you what i saw was

607
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,200
anomalous right and and yet he still has

608
00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,360
the gall to dismiss it and people who

609
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,280
again are kind of lazy just go oh well

610
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:22,880
until the neil degrasse tysons of the

611
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,080
world are saying something's there i'm

612
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:25,840
just not going to pay attention

613
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,720
as another example you know i

614
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:30,880
shared some some work that's been done

615
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:33,200
by bernard bernardo castro which is a

616
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:35,360
you know a big influence for me in terms

617
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:36,080
of

618
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:38,480
consciousness and idealism being uh you

619
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,039
know a way of seeing reality in a more

620
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:43,039
realistic way i think it's it's a better

621
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,559
and more powerful explanatory mechanism

622
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:47,919
to explain what we're seeing not only

623
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:50,240
with the ufo phenomenon but with reality

624
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,640
in general and how consciousness impacts

625
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,240
reality

626
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:57,120
and when i shared uh some links to a

627
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:59,840
course that bernardo taught

628
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:01,520
someone said you know this this this

629
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:03,679
course looks pretty woo

630
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:06,080
and here's a wikipedia article talking

631
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:08,080
about quantum mechanics right

632
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,679
and what people don't realize is that

633
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,240
you know wikipedia again is not a like

634
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:14,799
some neutral source right it's it's

635
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,120
people like rupert sheldrake have talked

636
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:19,120
specifically about how there's a certain

637
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:22,320
army of reductionistic materialists who

638
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,360
basically

639
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,440
are you know waiting by their keyboard

640
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,280
and the second anything comes across

641
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,880
that that goes outside the parameters of

642
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,400
what they consider

643
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,400
mainstream you know reductionistic

644
00:22:35,590 --> 00:22:34,720
materialism they will edit it on the fly

645
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,600
and so

646
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,200
even someone like rupert sheldrake has

647
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:38,960
had his own profile

648
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:41,200
be rewritten within minutes after

649
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,440
something gets updated right

650
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:45,440
so to to assume that again there's any

651
00:22:49,270 --> 00:22:46,960
kind of neutral

652
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:49,280
go-to place you can go to get the right

653
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:51,760
answer is an assumption and it's kind of

654
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:54,400
naive you know and and so i understand

655
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:55,840
this is challenging for some people

656
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:58,159
because they say well well if i don't if

657
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:00,000
i can never get a neutral source who am

658
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,159
i supposed to trust right

659
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:03,919
these are important questions they're

660
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:05,919
tricky questions and the question around

661
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:07,200
authority

662
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,360
is a central question when it comes to

663
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:11,440
all of this because as we've talked

664
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:14,720
about as i've talked about convergence

665
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:16,640
all of these phenomena ultimately lead

666
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:19,760
to the very construction of reality so

667
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:22,559
and it certainly seems to be building up

668
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,600
a vast assortment of evidence

669
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,840
like a dragon's lair of evidence saying

670
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,919
that the traditional mainstream

671
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:31,679
reductionistic materialistic view of

672
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:34,080
reality does not fly and not just

673
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:35,760
because the ufo phenomenon but because

674
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,760
of quantum mechanics because of the

675
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:39,520
neuroscience of consciousness it goes on

676
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:41,039
and on

677
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:42,799
so it is tricky and it's going to be a

678
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:45,279
very confusing time when it comes to

679
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,760
you know disclosure quote unquote

680
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:49,600
as we talk about many times because

681
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,279
you're going to have that really messy

682
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:53,520
in between stage where all of our

683
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:55,600
authority structures all of our ways of

684
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,600
identifying what's real what's not what

685
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,760
we can trust what we can't all of that's

686
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,279
going to have to shift

687
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:03,679
midstream in real time over multiple

688
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,799
years

689
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,640
while all this rolls out it's it's not

690
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:08,640
going to be a simple process and it it

691
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,200
will be messy i guarantee you that

692
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:12,960
i completely agree and i also want to

693
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:13,760
say

694
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,679
dragon's lair of evidence seems like it

695
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:17,360
would be a great like t-shirt or

696
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:19,120
something we need to work on that

697
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:21,279
that'll be available next week for 9.99

698
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:22,799
on our website

699
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:24,159
excellent there we go hopefully it's not

700
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:25,200
trademarked

701
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,279
um all right so um

702
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:29,120
i had to get that in all right so the

703
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:31,760
next clip here is uh i won't i won't

704
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:34,159
prime the listeners here uh when i put

705
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:35,360
this one on i think it'd be pretty

706
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:37,200
evident once it starts playing

707
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:44,470
entire area archaeologists are baffled

708
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,760
by what pumapunku was

709
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:49,520
how it looked

710
00:24:54,149 --> 00:24:52,000
and what the purpose of this enormous

711
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,159
structure would have been

712
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:56,640
mainstream scientists believe the site

713
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,440
was originally constructed about 2 000

714
00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:01,840
years ago

715
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:04,400
okay so that's a short clip uh it won't

716
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:06,880
surprise anyone to know that i pulled

717
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:08,960
that from uh the history channel's

718
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:10,080
youtube

719
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:11,919
uh and it's ancient aliens the

720
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:15,120
impossible stone blocks of puma punku

721
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:16,799
that's on season nine if anyone's

722
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:18,000
interested so

723
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:21,360
uh i love that because uh one i'm i like

724
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:23,679
many people i'm fascinated by mega

725
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:26,159
megalithic structures how could they not

726
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:27,840
uh you know sort of sparked the

727
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,400
imagination when we're talking about uh

728
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:32,480
really precisely uh

729
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:35,520
engineered uh gigantic

730
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:38,320
you know stone blocks uh sometimes with

731
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:41,440
in a sort of detailed geometric shape

732
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:43,039
and they've been you know somehow

733
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,200
seemingly transported long distances and

734
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:46,880
arranged in very specific ways there's

735
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:49,760
often an astrological component

736
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:51,360
to how they're laid out so the

737
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:53,440
imagination immediately runs wild and

738
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:55,760
says well we you know we can't do this

739
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:56,720
now

740
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:58,400
uh therefore

741
00:26:02,070 --> 00:25:59,760
let's insert

742
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:02,080
you know sort of x interesting

743
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:03,360
hypothesis

744
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,480
um and and also just by the fact that it

745
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:08,640
says ancient aliens as the introduction

746
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:10,799
to the the title of the clip i mean

747
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:12,559
immediately i'm thinking well

748
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:14,000
i'm going to learn about the aliens here

749
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,520
you know so the you know it's not just

750
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,200
about this interesting archaeological

751
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:18,799
find it's this interesting

752
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,720
archaeological find that was placed

753
00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:22,960
there by some sort of advanced

754
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,480
non-earthly non-human alien technology

755
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:28,320
so a great example of just kind of how

756
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,440
that

757
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:31,200
whole setup really structures our

758
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:34,320
interpretation of what is going on there

759
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:35,600
yeah like you say they don't even have

760
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:37,840
to use the word aliens or ancient in the

761
00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:38,799
actual

762
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:40,559
uh discussion itself with a clip right

763
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,200
just the fact that someone sees the logo

764
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:44,960
or maybe even just sees history channel

765
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:46,320
they're going to think you know ancient

766
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:48,080
aliens because it's kind of become

767
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,720
ubiquitous right and

768
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:52,400
yeah but again there's so many

769
00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:54,480
assumptions behind that and and you know

770
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:57,440
ancient aliens is an interesting um

771
00:27:01,990 --> 00:26:59,760
cultural phenomena in general uh

772
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:02,000
phenomenon because you know i i have a

773
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:03,360
couple friends who've been involved in

774
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:05,360
that show and

775
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:06,559
they

776
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,360
really run with ideas and just you know

777
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:13,919
see how far they can they can you know

778
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:16,240
keep the mileage going kind of thing

779
00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:17,760
but you know one of the

780
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,640
again

781
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:20,480
things we should ask and i'm we're

782
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:22,000
trying to encourage our audience to ask

783
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:23,120
is

784
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:26,640
accurate

785
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:28,240
what other things have to be true

786
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:29,440
because again there's always these

787
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:30,720
certain givens these are certain

788
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,039
assumptions we bring to the table

789
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,799
one of them being that

790
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,799
again our understanding of reality is

791
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:39,279
accurate our understanding of uh human

792
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:42,320
civilization's history is accurate

793
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:44,080
our assumption that

794
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,840
we've kind of

795
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:48,320
you know evolved to slowly get more and

796
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:50,080
more advanced and sophisticated in our

797
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:51,919
technology over time

798
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,159
and so when you believe that then you go

799
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:56,720
aha there's technology from our ancient

800
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,640
history that is

801
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:00,880
easily as sophisticated as ours in some

802
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:03,039
ways so it can't be us because we

803
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,960
already know there's only ever been one

804
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:06,640
human civilization you know in terms of

805
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,640
the big picture and it's rolled out

806
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:10,080
progressively in terms of getting more

807
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:11,840
and more sophisticated so when you

808
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:14,480
believe all those things then you go aha

809
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:18,080
so insert some additional intelligence

810
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,799
that must have done this and i.e aliens

811
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:22,240
right because again if you make certain

812
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,520
assumptions about

813
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:25,440
let's take interdimensional off the

814
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,520
table let's take time travelers off the

815
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,080
table let's take you know shadow biome

816
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:32,640
beings off the table right let's take

817
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,799
light energy beings off the table you

818
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,159
take all that off the table and you

819
00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:38,640
stick with a a physicalist paradigm then

820
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,880
you go ah it's got to be aliens got to

821
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:43,440
be extraterrestrials coming here and

822
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,880
doing stuff that we see now

823
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,960
archaeological evidence for

824
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:48,480
but what i'm trying to point to there is

825
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,360
that

826
00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:51,840
you have to buy all of those assumptions

827
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:53,679
for that to be the logical conclusion

828
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,279
you come to and it's just again a good

829
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:57,440
reminder to people to uh to pay

830
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:59,120
attention to what people are asking you

831
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,159
to buy

832
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,039
before they sell you that bill of goods

833
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:05,919
yeah and i've heard a lot of people

834
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,080
talk about megalithic structures and

835
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:10,960
ancient aliens in the context of

836
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:14,480
you know if you double down on the alien

837
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:16,880
aspect of this you really belittle

838
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:21,039
the uh ancient human uh ability to to do

839
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:22,559
amazing things

840
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:24,840
and you know we do have

841
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:26,559
uh

842
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:29,520
we we absorb this notion we are also

843
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:32,080
taught and reinforced this notion

844
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:36,480
that the arc of history and knowledge is

845
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:38,320
progressively up

846
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,960
uh that where we find ourselves situated

847
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:42,320
in the present

848
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:43,200
is

849
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:46,480
advanced in every way from what preceded

850
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:47,440
it

851
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:49,919
and we are continually advancing

852
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:52,880
and so i think it um

853
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:54,640
it's an interesting way to look at

854
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:56,080
things and maybe we are at that point in

855
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:57,919
history where it's very difficult for us

856
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:59,440
to distinguish

857
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,440
or to see that that's

858
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:04,080
in many ways kind of a fallacious

859
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:07,360
uh construction um we do live in a world

860
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,559
where so many things seem are seemingly

861
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:12,640
better than they were

862
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:15,760
in the last 100 200 300 years

863
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,480
um and i think even more challenging is

864
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:20,320
just with our com our computational

865
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,600
power the the the dawn of computers and

866
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,600
and moore's law

867
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:27,360
advancing at the rate that it does at

868
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,480
exponential speed that continues to move

869
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:31,679
forward

870
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,760
that's one of our uh sort of nearest

871
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,840
parallels that reinforces this note

872
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:39,760
notion so it's just it's it's it's

873
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:41,279
really self-evident we just we kind of

874
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:42,640
take it as part of the air that we

875
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:44,799
breathe that you know we are into this

876
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,840
place and those stupid ancient people

877
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:49,279
uh you know they may have done some

878
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:51,200
really cool things but they just they

879
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,720
just threw

880
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:54,640
hundreds and thousands of humans at it

881
00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:56,880
and uh with with real brute force they

882
00:31:02,070 --> 00:30:59,039
were able to do what they did

883
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,080
uh and that that's it you know and maybe

884
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,559
uh you know maybe not

885
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:07,039
but i think that uh we need to be

886
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:08,480
careful

887
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:10,159
about how we absorb

888
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:12,399
this content uh particularly when we're

889
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:14,080
looking at it from that

890
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:16,960
you know modern uh uh

891
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,200
privileged you know sort of uh

892
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:21,440
perspective we we do place a lot of

893
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,519
primacy on where we happen to be in this

894
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:25,279
point in history

895
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,880
right and i another thing i would add

896
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,559
too is that you know one of the

897
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,960
alternate hypothesis hypotheses that

898
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:32,960
i've heard put forward to explain some

899
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:36,159
of these ancient monolithic structures

900
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:37,279
is that

901
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,880
in the same way that we see evidence

902
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:41,200
that human beings have psi capacity

903
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:42,640
right we have

904
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,000
ability for telepathy uh you know remote

905
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:48,080
viewing clairvoyance is another word for

906
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:50,720
that clairsentience is sort of like

907
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:52,320
accessing information and all our sort

908
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:53,919
of senses that we shouldn't have access

909
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,240
to across space and time

910
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,720
but another one is psychokinesis right

911
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:00,720
the ability to move objects with our

912
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:04,159
minds and again we assume that

913
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,279
uh

914
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,279
our ancestors didn't have these kind of

915
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,760
powers but but what if part of the

916
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,440
trade-off of

917
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,600
identifying with a physicalist model

918
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,080
where you you gain traction in terms of

919
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:18,000
being able to manipulate nature and

920
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,399
develop technology the way that we have

921
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:22,080
what if the trade-off for that is that

922
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:24,080
you slowly move away from

923
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:26,799
this more uh grounded

924
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:30,080
primal energy where you are in contact

925
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:31,600
with nature directly through your

926
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:34,559
consciousness what if our ancestors were

927
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:35,440
just

928
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:37,279
masters of this in ways that we can't

929
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:38,799
even fathom and that one of the

930
00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:40,720
consequences of going in a certain

931
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:43,519
direction gave us certain advantages but

932
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:44,960
one of the trade-offs was that our

933
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:48,240
ability in psi for instance went down uh

934
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:49,840
that's a possibility you know when we

935
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,120
see a giant monolithic you know block

936
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:55,600
moved and we know it weighs 2000 tons we

937
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,840
say that's just physically not possible

938
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:59,519
did they have cranes how did they do

939
00:33:03,430 --> 00:33:00,559
that you know that they didn't have

940
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,440
conveyors right they had no machinery

941
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:05,600
but what if it was a telekinetic act

942
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:07,279
right what if they had the capacity to

943
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,279
do this and again the reason why that's

944
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:10,799
not even that much of a stretch is

945
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:12,960
because we recognize that

946
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,799
there does seem to be a lot of mounting

947
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:16,320
evidence that

948
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:18,000
psi is real

949
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,440
that's kind of beyond a shadow of doubt

950
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:21,840
at this point and and time and space

951
00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:24,480
seem irrelevant and human beings seem to

952
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:26,559
have the capacity to

953
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,000
to exercise psy capacity so it's again

954
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:32,000
it's an assumption it's kind of a an

955
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:33,600
assumption where we put ourselves at the

956
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:35,440
center of the universe

957
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:37,279
in saying that nobody was ever better

958
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:38,799
than us at anything kind of thing we're

959
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:41,519
that we're the pinnacle right of human

960
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:43,919
uh civilization maybe not maybe there's

961
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,600
been a trade-off and what we're seeing

962
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:47,760
there is evidence of something like psi

963
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:50,159
capacity in our ancestors

964
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:52,880
yeah i love that i think it's a really

965
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:55,120
cool idea and i'm sure a lot of folks

966
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:56,640
that have been into

967
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,360
uh our ancient past have have have

968
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:01,360
really explored that as well because a

969
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:04,159
lot of listeners will identify with that

970
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:06,799
uh the next clip i'm

971
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:08,159
i'm laughing because i can't wait to i

972
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:10,079
really want to tee this one up so you we

973
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:12,639
were talking about clips today and you

974
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:14,800
sent me a youtube link

975
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,720
uh and and when you when i started

976
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,399
playing it i was like this guy has the

977
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:20,639
creepiest narrator voice and it's

978
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:23,839
absolutely perfect for this content so i

979
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:26,079
will set this one up a little bit what

980
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:29,760
we're going to listen to is a reading

981
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:32,159
from the book of revelation

982
00:34:34,950 --> 00:34:33,119
and

983
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,960
let me harp on one point real real quick

984
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:36,320
here because my dad always harped on

985
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:37,839
this with me it's not the book of

986
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:40,399
revelations it's the book of revelation

987
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:42,240
so it if you ever hear somebody say

988
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,000
plural they're saying it wrong

989
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,320
sorry that's the minister's uh child and

990
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,159
me coming out so we're going to listen

991
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,800
to this clip and it talks about uh

992
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,399
something that most people in the west

993
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:55,119
will have heard about this notion of

994
00:35:02,310 --> 00:34:56,240
the mark

995
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,270
speak

996
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:05,440
then the statue commanded that anyone

997
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:08,320
refusing to worship it must die

998
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:10,400
he required everyone great and small

999
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,880
rich and poor slave and free to be given

1000
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,560
a mark on the right hand or on the

1001
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:17,440
forehead and no one could buy or sell

1002
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,359
anything without that mark which was

1003
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,040
either the name of the beast or the

1004
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:23,280
number representing his name

1005
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:25,760
wisdom is needed to understand this let

1006
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,240
the one who has understanding solve the

1007
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:30,480
number of the beast or it is the number

1008
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:35,359
of a man his number is 666.

1009
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,560
all right well i had to stop it there

1010
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:38,560
because that's the perfect uh way to end

1011
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:40,800
it so this this guy's voice is like for

1012
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:42,079
me it's kind of metal i don't know i

1013
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,320
feel like this should be like some sort

1014
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,079
of metal we should follow it up with

1015
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:48,480
iron maiden at that point i mean

1016
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:51,920
exactly it's just so good all right so

1017
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,240
uh this is one that you know probably

1018
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:56,320
cuts close to home for you and for me

1019
00:36:01,589 --> 00:35:58,880
growing up in the christian tradition

1020
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:01,599
uh the book of revelation along with

1021
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:03,920
other books in the christian

1022
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:06,880
bible uh the book of daniel and ezekiel

1023
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:07,520
and

1024
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,640
apocalyptic

1025
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,640
uh language and text

1026
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:14,800
and because it's apocalyptic it gets a

1027
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:16,400
lot of attention it's very juicy

1028
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,359
material and every generation of human

1029
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,680
beings has wrestled with this notion of

1030
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,359
uh you know something's wrong with the

1031
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,200
world that i find myself in and

1032
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:27,040
hopefully it's coming to an end soon and

1033
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:28,880
it's going to get fixed

1034
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,680
and so we have this uh you know

1035
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:33,440
sort of craving for

1036
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:35,839
the end times we have our own little

1037
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:38,560
eschatological desires that we bring to

1038
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:39,760
the table

1039
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:41,440
and the mark of the beast is just a

1040
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:43,680
great one because it combines all those

1041
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:46,480
things together along with this sort of

1042
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:48,720
technology you know you hear people talk

1043
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,480
about

1044
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:52,960
the advances of technology and neural

1045
00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:55,040
implants or

1046
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,200
things that you know tattoos and it's

1047
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,119
changed over time as technology has

1048
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,680
changed but uh the the kind of

1049
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,320
overarching theme here is that

1050
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:06,560
uh you're going to be given something

1051
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,720
that if you don't have it you just can't

1052
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,280
operate in the world and it's a sign

1053
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,839
that the world is you know on a steep

1054
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:15,359
decline and it's about to come to a

1055
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,510
yeah absolutely it's uh

1056
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:23,599
there's so much here to go into and you

1057
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:26,880
know we could do uh 500 podcasts on this

1058
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:30,079
alone and still not get to all of it

1059
00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:31,839
so we'll just touch on a few things so

1060
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:36,550
one thing i point out to people is that

1061
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:39,839
apocalypse is actually a genre within

1062
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:41,520
you know biblical literature and

1063
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,440
literature of that type that so people

1064
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,880
need to be aware of that it's not like

1065
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:46,800
the book of revelation like you say

1066
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:47,839
singular

1067
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:50,320
is only is the only example of this kind

1068
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,599
of genre

1069
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:53,839
there are other books uh you know

1070
00:37:59,190 --> 00:37:56,640
apocryphal books um that

1071
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:59,200
uh also take this same kind of genre so

1072
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,640
in other words

1073
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:02,640
the way you talk about reality the way

1074
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,480
you describe things is done in a certain

1075
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,480
way just like a rom-com right when

1076
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,000
people go see a movie

1077
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:10,240
has certain like you know ways it's

1078
00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:12,000
always done and you can identify ah yeah

1079
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:13,359
this is this is where the best friend

1080
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:15,200
comes in and says hey man you get you

1081
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,560
need to give her a call

1082
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:18,400
otherwise these certain like uh you know

1083
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,480
moments that you identify as

1084
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,480
belonging to that genre right

1085
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:24,880
same thing with apocalypse so we we need

1086
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:25,760
to

1087
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,440
um number two it's it's always vague

1088
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:33,920
enough that it can apply to almost any

1089
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,320
point in history right so

1090
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:37,920
i think one of the funniest things about

1091
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:40,320
being alive you know for several decades

1092
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:42,400
is that you begin to see how

1093
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:44,720
every year this gets interpreted based

1094
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:47,119
on current events right so

1095
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:49,200
most recently i remember hearing about

1096
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:51,200
oh a covid shot

1097
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,520
there it is right there there's the mark

1098
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:54,800
you get that

1099
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:57,280
not only does it like edit your dna

1100
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,560
um and you know uh

1101
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:01,920
do something with bill gates i don't

1102
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:03,040
remember

1103
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:04,400
but on top of that you know you've

1104
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:05,920
basically been given the mark of the

1105
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:07,839
beast when you when you get that coveted

1106
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:10,720
shot and

1107
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:11,839
what i'm pointing out there is that's

1108
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,760
just the most recent interpretation

1109
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:15,119
right like

1110
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:16,640
anything even people will say like a

1111
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:18,880
passport or they'll say oh

1112
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,599
now we're doing uh you know

1113
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:23,760
driver's licenses with extra security on

1114
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:25,520
them so you can cross the border with a

1115
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,800
driver's license rather than needing a

1116
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:28,560
passport that's the mark of the beast

1117
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:29,599
right there pretty soon they're going to

1118
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:32,000
have your dna you know or like you say

1119
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:35,119
neural implants and elon musk right and

1120
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:37,280
and people just read into it what they

1121
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:39,119
want to see in other words like you say

1122
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:40,079
and i thought you made a really good

1123
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:41,520
point to begin this

1124
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:42,800
some people

1125
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,800
unconsciously who are not very

1126
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,560
self-aware

1127
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:48,079
kind of are not very happy with their

1128
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:49,440
lives not very happy with the state of

1129
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,520
the world they'd be quite happy if

1130
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:53,839
comets started raining down and the four

1131
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:55,760
horsemen came you know marching across

1132
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:57,280
the sky

1133
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:00,160
and so there's this tendency to want to

1134
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,119
see and to read into modern events

1135
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:05,599
the fulfillment of prophecy from apoc

1136
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:08,000
you know apocalyptic books like the book

1137
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:09,680
of revelation so that's the first few

1138
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:10,960
things i would say on this enormous

1139
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:12,880
topic what about you

1140
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,240
well i just have to give you uh

1141
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:18,240
applause here because not only have you

1142
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,880
introduced dragon's lair of evidence but

1143
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:23,040
comparing apocalyptic literature to a

1144
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,280
rom-com i've never heard that done

1145
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:27,280
before and i'll never forget it and it's

1146
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,680
fantastic it is fantastic so

1147
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:31,440
it's a great i'm really glad that you

1148
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:34,240
mentioned that because it absolutely

1149
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:37,599
is a quality and characteristic of that

1150
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:40,160
type of literature and

1151
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:42,880
it's you know there were people in in

1152
00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:44,640
the ancient days who

1153
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,359
specialized in that kind of writing uh

1154
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:49,440
that they have um

1155
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,280
you know they're well steeped in certain

1156
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:52,560
symbology

1157
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:55,520
uh they are well steeped in astrology

1158
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:58,240
and geography and all kinds of different

1159
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,599
sort of areas

1160
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:01,760
that they can weave together to paint a

1161
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,720
picture

1162
00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:04,079
um the other thing that i will say

1163
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:05,839
that's really important

1164
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,000
and i know that you'll you know resonate

1165
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:10,079
with this as well

1166
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:11,680
we

1167
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:15,680
a piece of text you know

1168
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,319
whether it be shakespeare whether it be

1169
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,200
the bible whether it be plato you know

1170
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:23,599
we are listening to that material

1171
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,319
and we are we are visualizing it and

1172
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,319
interpreting it through the context and

1173
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:30,720
lens of of our lived experience where we

1174
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:33,119
happen to be situated in our present

1175
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:36,640
moment now that experience is absolutely

1176
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,520
colored by the things that we learn and

1177
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:42,079
so that it can be informed you know we

1178
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:44,560
can be taught history we can be taught

1179
00:41:48,150 --> 00:41:46,319
uh current events we can kind of weave

1180
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,160
all those things together we can be a

1181
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,000
little bit more cognizant of our of our

1182
00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:52,240
biases when we're reading this kind of

1183
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:54,160
thing but we we will never be able to

1184
00:41:59,270 --> 00:41:56,800
insert ourselves into the positions of

1185
00:42:02,069 --> 00:41:59,280
the listeners of the time in which that

1186
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:02,079
particular piece was written

1187
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,520
and that is a challenge it's not to say

1188
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:05,920
we can't appreciate literature

1189
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,400
um because clearly we can and i think

1190
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,440
literature is uh it is meant to be

1191
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:13,680
interpreted language is is is

1192
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,359
interpretive um

1193
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:17,520
in that and that goes for this very

1194
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:20,079
conversation uh or a letter that i would

1195
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:22,319
write to you you know and mail it to you

1196
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,760
you know you're going to interpret what

1197
00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:25,359
i'm sending or a text message you know

1198
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:27,200
you're going to interpret that

1199
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,720
in maybe a slightly different way than i

1200
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,640
intended and we live in the same time

1201
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,160
period and we share a lot of the same

1202
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:34,160
experiences so imagine

1203
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,240
the challenge that we have that we face

1204
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:38,400
when we were picking up a text like this

1205
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:40,480
and trying to make sense of it and draw

1206
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:43,520
some sort of concrete conclusions um so

1207
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,119
you know if it sounds like i'm getting a

1208
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:47,119
little heated about this that probably

1209
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:48,560
uh this is the heated nathan the most

1210
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:50,800
heated nathan's ever going to get um

1211
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:53,359
but it's because i think this particular

1212
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:54,880
text

1213
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:57,599
has seen a good bit of abuse

1214
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,690
and it has been

1215
00:43:01,589 --> 00:43:00,000
[Music]

1216
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:01,599
it has been

1217
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:03,599
leaned on and

1218
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:06,480
sort of propped up in a way that i think

1219
00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:09,760
overshadows some of the more

1220
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:13,359
profound and fundamental teachings of

1221
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:16,319
christianity uh that in my opinion are

1222
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,640
far more important than you know how

1223
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,319
many heads are on

1224
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:22,560
this particular beast and how many

1225
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:24,960
flames are happening here or there

1226
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:27,440
so anyway all that is to say it you know

1227
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,760
we really do have to think through

1228
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:31,599
the things that color that kind of the

1229
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,960
lenses that we put on when we're

1230
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:34,560
listening to and reading this kind of

1231
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,760
material

1232
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,520
we have to be careful not to jump to

1233
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:39,359
conclusions and parallels and say well

1234
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,880
this means that

1235
00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:42,880
all of those attempts are

1236
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,319
and i'll end it on this where i pass it

1237
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:46,560
to you in my opinion our attempts to

1238
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:48,960
gain control and power over something

1239
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:51,440
that we really don't understand so

1240
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:52,960
taking something that is a little bit

1241
00:43:58,230 --> 00:43:55,599
basically confusing and and then and

1242
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:58,240
then ordering that information those

1243
00:44:01,990 --> 00:44:00,480
bits of information in a way that gives

1244
00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:02,000
us a narrative

1245
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:04,720
uh arc and story that we can wield as a

1246
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:07,520
tool and gain power over our own life

1247
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:10,000
our own situation and also over other

1248
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:11,839
people if we can make that

1249
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:14,640
narrative convincing uh and we can make

1250
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:19,280
it go viral then we have societal power

1251
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,920
yeah absolutely and i think to to add to

1252
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,520
that point i would say that

1253
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,880
people need to understand that even

1254
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,400
within

1255
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:28,319
biblical scholarship there's different

1256
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:30,400
ways of interpreting apocalyptic

1257
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:31,680
literature and there's different ways of

1258
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,440
interpreting the book of revelation in

1259
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:35,040
other words even for people who've

1260
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,280
studied this for years and can read it

1261
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:39,040
you know in aramaic and hebrew and

1262
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:40,079
whatnot

1263
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,920
they still disagree about what the

1264
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:43,440
ultimate aim was you know so for

1265
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:45,520
instance there are some people that

1266
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:49,599
see the book of revelation as more like

1267
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:52,079
coded messages about the roman empire

1268
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:54,000
but set in such a way as to not get in

1269
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:56,240
trouble with the roman empire right so

1270
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:57,520
imagine you're

1271
00:45:02,550 --> 00:44:59,920
in the midst of a society where there's

1272
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:02,560
this controlling army

1273
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,319
that will come down on you if you say

1274
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:06,880
anything against the empire so you use

1275
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:09,280
this apocalyptic literature like hint

1276
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,119
hint you know to your friends you'll

1277
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:13,040
know what you're referring to but the

1278
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,480
empire won't know what you're referring

1279
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:15,839
to right

1280
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:18,480
we now in you know the 21st century

1281
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:21,200
completely divorced from that context

1282
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,800
read it and go wow cool you know

1283
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:24,560
four-headed lions and all sorts of stuff

1284
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:27,200
like this sounds exciting you know um

1285
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:28,720
and it completely

1286
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:31,200
it's lost to us this political aspect

1287
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:32,560
that might be part of it i'm not even

1288
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:34,640
saying that's necessarily the only or

1289
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,560
the correct interpretation but it's i'm

1290
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:38,240
saying that even amongst the experts

1291
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,079
there's disagreement around how you

1292
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,240
should interpret this i've seen some

1293
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,400
people go so far as to say

1294
00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:46,480
it's all political and all based in the

1295
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,880
times of the roman empire i've seen

1296
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:50,960
other people say it's no it's all about

1297
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:52,880
times that have not happened yet and

1298
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:54,319
i've seen some people who try to go

1299
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:55,839
somewhere in between and say it's got

1300
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:58,880
this amazing miraculous kind of dual

1301
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:00,720
meaning where it all it

1302
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:03,760
because god ordained this and it kind of

1303
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:05,520
felt like a feather from heaven you know

1304
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,880
if you if you have that kind of view of

1305
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:07,920
scripture

1306
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,040
that it's uh inspired in such a way that

1307
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:13,200
it both means what it meant to them then

1308
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:15,599
and it is referring to our future so you

1309
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,640
there's so many different ways of

1310
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:18,960
interpreting it but a word i would

1311
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:21,680
introduce to people is anachronism right

1312
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:23,119
and that's where we take

1313
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:25,040
our current time and read something

1314
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:27,040
historical as if it was written two

1315
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:28,880
weeks ago right and and not even being

1316
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:31,680
aware of how we're doing that so

1317
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:32,960
these are important issues to think

1318
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:37,910
like you said i also get heated about

1319
00:46:42,470 --> 00:46:40,079
this one because i see people just

1320
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:42,480
even on ufo twitter for instance just

1321
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:44,880
pull a passage out of scripture

1322
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:47,359
not refer to genre right not refer to

1323
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:49,760
cultural context not refer to the

1324
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:52,240
language issues you get when you try to

1325
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:53,119
you know

1326
00:46:57,109 --> 00:46:54,560
interpret something or translate it

1327
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,119
three times over kind of thing

1328
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,040
like you i was taught that what you

1329
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:01,440
should always do first and foremost is

1330
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:03,599
hear it through the ears of the original

1331
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,160
audience right it was not written

1332
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,880
for those of us in 2022 right it was

1333
00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:10,400
written for an original audience who had

1334
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,560
a very very different context

1335
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:14,240
several times now i've used that analogy

1336
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:16,000
of break a leg right that means a

1337
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:17,440
certain thing to us

1338
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:20,079
it might be grossly misinterpreted by

1339
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:21,760
someone from outside of our time and

1340
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,480
outside of our cultural milieu and go

1341
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,160
wow what's up with these guys snapping

1342
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:28,160
limbs you know it's a weird barbaric

1343
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:29,920
kind of practice they have to because

1344
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:31,119
they think it's going to influence the

1345
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,280
gods or something no that's a that's a

1346
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:35,040
misreading and

1347
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,480
what i'm pointing out is that we can do

1348
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,480
the very same thing and we do do the

1349
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:40,000
very same thing about these these

1350
00:47:44,230 --> 00:47:42,640
passages from scripture

1351
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:44,240
yeah and the last thing i'll say on this

1352
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:46,000
too is that

1353
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:52,390
factual accuracy of interpretation

1354
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:54,800
which i think we can argue is is going

1355
00:47:58,790 --> 00:47:55,760
to be

1356
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:58,800
a little bit um

1357
00:48:03,430 --> 00:48:01,200
challenging to say the least on a text

1358
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:03,440
that's so far removed from our current

1359
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:04,559
context

1360
00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:11,589
it it the way in which people use this

1361
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:13,119
text

1362
00:48:17,430 --> 00:48:16,319
to make decisions to

1363
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,440
impact

1364
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:19,760
uh people in their own circles of

1365
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:22,160
influence uh the way that impacts the

1366
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,680
way that they make decisions in their

1367
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:25,119
own lives

1368
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:26,480
that's important

1369
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,160
and we could spend a whole other episode

1370
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,160
and we may at some point you know going

1371
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:31,760
over this particular

1372
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:34,640
branch within ufology in particular

1373
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,000
because

1374
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,160
we certainly have heard the stories of

1375
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:40,480
individuals with a great deal of

1376
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:42,319
influence

1377
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,119
interpreting this text and others like

1378
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:47,119
it in a certain way

1379
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:49,680
such that they want to even

1380
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,480
make it come about in our modern day

1381
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:54,720
time they they want to usher in

1382
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:57,599
an apocalypse essentially in order to be

1383
00:49:02,950 --> 00:48:59,920
in in line with what they think

1384
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,960
is the the base core meaning of of this

1385
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:04,880
text and and others like it so i think

1386
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:07,119
that's something we will circle back to

1387
00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:09,040
uh over and over right and before we

1388
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:10,480
move on to the next one i just want to

1389
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:13,440
highlight that point and say that

1390
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,079
and i think we addressed this in our uh

1391
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:18,480
in our aliens or angels and demons or

1392
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:20,640
demons episode one of the first few

1393
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:22,720
episodes we did but just to say it one

1394
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,319
more time

1395
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,319
people for some reason seem to act like

1396
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:27,920
these people with security clearances

1397
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:29,599
that are in the intelligence community

1398
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:31,040
are beyond

1399
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:33,200
having religious bias or having their

1400
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,960
upbringing impact

1401
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:37,200
their way of reading intelligence in the

1402
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:38,800
modern day and i just want to highlight

1403
00:49:42,470 --> 00:49:41,119
that that's just not the case of course

1404
00:49:45,030 --> 00:49:42,480
we think about groups like the collins

1405
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,040
elite here and i've had people from

1406
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:47,280
outside an american context say to me

1407
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:48,880
come on these people have like high

1408
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:50,480
security clearances they've been through

1409
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:51,440
training

1410
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:52,720
you're telling me that they're going to

1411
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:54,559
let their like sunday school training

1412
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,960
when they're like 10 years old impact

1413
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:58,720
the way they interpret events and i

1414
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:00,800
would say absolutely and we all do it

1415
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:02,960
and we're naive if we don't think we do

1416
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:04,000
it and

1417
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:05,520
if you don't notice yourself doing it

1418
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,960
you need to pay closer attention because

1419
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,640
i guarantee you're doing it you're

1420
00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:10,319
you're interpreting reality through

1421
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:11,839
frameworks that you've inherited from

1422
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:14,079
your culture from your family and

1423
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,920
whatnot

1424
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:17,599
and like you said i have absolutely

1425
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:19,760
heard that very thing i've heard that

1426
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:22,079
there are people with political power

1427
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:24,480
whose very aim is to actually try to

1428
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:27,359
bring about the end times that to

1429
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,440
they then they see themselves as being

1430
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:30,720
called to

1431
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:33,280
um initiate actions that will help sort

1432
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:34,319
of like

1433
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:36,480
create the uh the cascading effect that

1434
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:38,640
will make this happen which is

1435
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:40,240
a bizarre thing to me at all that they

1436
00:50:43,109 --> 00:50:41,040
would think that that's something

1437
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:43,119
they're supposed to do

1438
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,640
secondly even more bizarre that they

1439
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:46,480
think they can do it

1440
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,760
but these are people that are our

1441
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:49,920
political leaders in various positions

1442
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,000
around the world so just be aware that

1443
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:54,880
these frameworks have they have real

1444
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,280
impact and they can change our world

1445
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:59,599
they can have real-time

1446
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:01,680
serious impacts when people take these

1447
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:03,359
things literally

1448
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,440
yeah well said

1449
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:07,440
um so we'll yeah we'll transition now to

1450
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:08,800
actually it's not a transition we'll

1451
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,480
finish we'll round this out let's put it

1452
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:12,720
that way with a clip here

1453
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:14,319
that does touch on

1454
00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:21,190
the last place you'd probably ever

1455
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:23,440
suspect you'd find a biblical scholar is

1456
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:25,680
at a ufo conference

1457
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,079
i've been to a bunch of them i've spoken

1458
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:30,720
at a few the reason i'm there

1459
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:33,760
is because that subject matter

1460
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:36,079
is hugely popular just think of

1461
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:38,480
something like ancient aliens millions

1462
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:41,520
and millions and millions of viewers

1463
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:43,119
this is a big deal

1464
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:45,119
and it's a big deal for me as a biblical

1465
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,680
scholar because when you get into this

1466
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:50,160
subject matter it's inherently about

1467
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:51,440
questions like

1468
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:55,040
what really is humanity who put us here

1469
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:57,040
what about god is there a god maybe

1470
00:52:02,470 --> 00:51:58,960
maybe the god we think of

1471
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:02,480
is actually an alien superior being now

1472
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,440
for me

1473
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:05,920
this takes us right into the unseen

1474
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:08,960
world the realm of angels and demons and

1475
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:14,240
gods and god himself biblical stuff

1476
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:15,839
biblical stuff indeed

1477
00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:17,119
uh i'm gonna let you have that one first

1478
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:19,760
that came from you so

1479
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:22,000
where do you want to go with that

1480
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,359
well a few things uh first of all

1481
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,280
you notice how this person has a bit of

1482
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,359
a savior complex right they they think

1483
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:31,920
that these poor ufologists right these

1484
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:33,200
poor people

1485
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:34,880
uh you know

1486
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:37,839
gathering together to discuss aliens

1487
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,079
are deceived about what they're actually

1488
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:43,119
perceiving and experiencing and

1489
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:44,800
i'm gonna go and i'm gonna sort it out

1490
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:46,240
for them i'm going to help explain to

1491
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:48,000
them that whenever

1492
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,599
you deal with things that are beyond

1493
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:51,359
this normal reality

1494
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:53,920
you're now in the realm of

1495
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:56,240
what a biblical scholar again that's

1496
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:57,680
interesting how uses that terminology

1497
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:00,079
because that's a very wide-ranging

1498
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:02,000
expression but in his case what he means

1499
00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:03,440
is

1500
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,880
now we're in my

1501
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:06,960
field of expertise which is

1502
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:10,880
you know god satan angels demons

1503
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:13,920
and so he's already making the leap that

1504
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,200
when you start talking about these

1505
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:16,800
otherworldly creatures you're now in

1506
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,200
this territory and this territory only

1507
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:21,359
includes these certain pre-existing

1508
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:23,920
categories and so i'm gonna go and help

1509
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:25,119
these poor people understand what

1510
00:53:29,750 --> 00:53:27,359
they're really dealing with and notice

1511
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:29,760
when he says the thing about

1512
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:31,520
you know are these poor people thinking

1513
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,280
that maybe god is a sophisticated alien

1514
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:36,880
but what's not said there but is

1515
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:38,800
definitely implied is that that's the

1516
00:53:42,390 --> 00:53:40,880
wrong assumption that that actually his

1517
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,400
view of a

1518
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:45,119
probably an evangelical conception of

1519
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:46,640
father god you know

1520
00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:49,280
uh is the right one and this alien idea

1521
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:51,359
needs to be corrected i'm not taking a

1522
00:53:57,030 --> 00:53:54,480
position either way there um

1523
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:57,040
i am a spiritual person i i do believe

1524
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:59,119
in a cosmic intelligence

1525
00:54:01,750 --> 00:53:59,839
but

1526
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,760
i want to quickly and importantly

1527
00:54:06,230 --> 00:54:04,079
distinguish that from a very specific

1528
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:06,240
narrative around a certain creation

1529
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:08,400
story and certain assumptions about the

1530
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:10,800
way that this hierarchy of spiritual

1531
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:13,280
beings uh is set up

1532
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:14,880
and

1533
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,119
this was on a uh on a website i think

1534
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:18,720
called faith life or on a youtube

1535
00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:19,839
channel called that so that kind of

1536
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:22,000
right away tells you what their you know

1537
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:24,160
their interpretation is again so you go

1538
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:25,520
to the youtube channel for ancient

1539
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:27,119
aliens and you know right away when

1540
00:54:31,270 --> 00:54:28,720
they're talking about ancient monolithic

1541
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:31,280
structures what their spin is gonna be

1542
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:33,359
i found this clip on this faith life

1543
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:35,599
youtube channel and i knew right away

1544
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:38,160
when i saw this this this description or

1545
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:41,599
this title that this spin is going to be

1546
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:43,200
let's go and help these poor people who

1547
00:54:47,750 --> 00:54:45,200
are misinterpreting what is actually an

1548
00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:47,760
experience with angels and demons

1549
00:54:52,230 --> 00:54:49,520
back to you

1550
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:52,240
yeah i mean yeah spot on spot on with

1551
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:54,079
that

1552
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,119
use to

1553
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:03,599
explain and signify something that is

1554
00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:04,960
happening

1555
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:06,400
outside of our

1556
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:09,040
normative experiences right so

1557
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,280
um we have a lot of

1558
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,520
we have a lot of mythologies and sort of

1559
00:55:16,789 --> 00:55:15,359
language that that you know across our

1560
00:55:19,270 --> 00:55:16,799
cultures that

1561
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,280
that attempt to

1562
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:21,839
you know categorize and box and shape

1563
00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:25,359
and inform uh experiences that happen in

1564
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:27,520
in our lives that that we that just

1565
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:30,240
don't fit neatly into the

1566
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:33,280
kind of story that we're given and so

1567
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,640
you know for some

1568
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:37,280
who've adopted the angels and demons uh

1569
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:40,240
and and god as you said god the father

1570
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:43,119
you know this entire mythology

1571
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:44,720
uh for them it's

1572
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:46,880
it's operationally useful you know think

1573
00:55:50,150 --> 00:55:48,559
of it like a software you know it's it's

1574
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:50,160
it's really helpful it orders everything

1575
00:55:53,190 --> 00:55:51,359
that they do

1576
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,200
um and it's actually coherent you know

1577
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:55,040
so that if it may not be it may not

1578
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:56,400
sound that way to those that don't

1579
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:58,799
believe believe in it but it to them

1580
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:00,400
there's a there's a

1581
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,200
there's a internal consistency that they

1582
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,280
have developed and you and i both know

1583
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,599
this very well having grown up in some

1584
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:09,599
of these traditions that

1585
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:10,640
the

1586
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:19,200
is so detailed and uh so

1587
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:22,559
uh interwoven that what it does is it it

1588
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,640
does help to explain

1589
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:26,079
you know pretty much everything that

1590
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:28,480
that that happens in a person's life you

1591
00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:32,000
know so um and therefore becomes it

1592
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,400
becomes powerful because there's nothing

1593
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,480
that it cannot explain

1594
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,760
right so

1595
00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:39,359
we have to recognize that that's

1596
00:56:42,710 --> 00:56:40,559
happening

1597
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:42,720
not only in those circles

1598
00:56:48,309 --> 00:56:45,280
uh and there's a tendency that of those

1599
00:56:50,470 --> 00:56:48,319
individuals to take that rubric and

1600
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:50,480
apply it to any subject you know it

1601
00:56:54,150 --> 00:56:52,160
doesn't matter what it is

1602
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:54,160
they're going to take that you know

1603
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,720
construct and apply it everywhere

1604
00:57:01,910 --> 00:56:59,040
but the same is going to be true for

1605
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:01,920
those that have a very well-defined

1606
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:02,720
uh

1607
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:05,200
you know kind of alien cosmology you

1608
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:07,520
know within the ufology you know if you

1609
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:08,319
have

1610
00:57:11,910 --> 00:57:09,760
uh

1611
00:57:13,990 --> 00:57:11,920
really immersed yourself in this and you

1612
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:14,000
feel like you've gotten the answer and

1613
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,079
you know that it's you know these beings

1614
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:18,079
from this place and doing the these

1615
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:19,200
things this is their list of

1616
00:57:23,589 --> 00:57:21,280
capabilities this is the things that

1617
00:57:25,829 --> 00:57:23,599
they can't do i mean it's it's very

1618
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,839
attractive it's it's a seductive quality

1619
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:27,440
because you're like wow this person you

1620
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,640
know they've really got it all figured

1621
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,319
out it's it's a whole system but it's

1622
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:32,559
exactly the same kind of thing

1623
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:34,480
that's happening on the religious side

1624
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:38,240
it's just happening on a you know a ufo

1625
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:40,799
uh side of the equation so i say all

1626
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:42,640
that to say that you know we're all

1627
00:57:46,390 --> 00:57:44,559
doing this all the time and you've

1628
00:57:49,109 --> 00:57:46,400
pointed that out as well

1629
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:49,119
but i think we need to be really

1630
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:50,079
careful

1631
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,720
when we step into a space

1632
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:54,400
of conversation

1633
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,000
particularly about things that we don't

1634
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:57,839
really understand

1635
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:58,880
that we

1636
00:58:01,990 --> 00:57:59,920
uh

1637
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:02,000
apply the constructs that we are most

1638
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,680
familiar with but then also step back

1639
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:04,960
and say wait is this

1640
00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:06,720
does this actually have the explanatory

1641
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,720
power that i think it does

1642
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,720
does this really make make sense and and

1643
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:12,400
the labels that i'm using does it really

1644
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:14,880
capture what's really happening uh or am

1645
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:15,599
i

1646
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:20,960
uh

1647
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:23,440
only a a paintbrush that has one one

1648
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,200
color on it i'm just constantly applying

1649
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:27,599
it over and over

1650
00:58:32,470 --> 00:58:29,200
yeah that's a good analogy to think of a

1651
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:34,870
yeah a few things to to say here

1652
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:36,000
and you already touched on it the

1653
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:37,599
mythology piece and i think we really

1654
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:39,040
need to highlight this for people

1655
00:58:43,750 --> 00:58:41,200
because i see this being missed a lot in

1656
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:43,760
the conversation

1657
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:45,440
we're not saying

1658
00:58:49,510 --> 00:58:47,599
that there are not entities some who are

1659
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,520
benevolent and some who are seemingly

1660
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:51,359
malevolent or at least you know not

1661
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:53,359
completely benign

1662
00:58:57,750 --> 00:58:55,920
in our midst that seem to

1663
00:59:00,069 --> 00:58:57,760
um come from

1664
00:59:02,549 --> 00:59:00,079
domains that stretch our understanding

1665
00:59:04,549 --> 00:59:02,559
of what happens in a physicalist model i

1666
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:04,559
think there are entities

1667
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:08,079
like that but what they actually are

1668
00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:10,559
is a very very different question

1669
00:59:13,349 --> 00:59:12,400
acknowledging that they exist is one

1670
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:13,359
thing

1671
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:16,160
quickly leaping to a pre-existing

1672
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:19,200
paradigm that has a certain offering to

1673
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:21,599
explain them is a completely separate

1674
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:24,240
issue you know and so often people

1675
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:26,400
make the second leap once they have

1676
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:27,760
established number one and they think

1677
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:30,319
that's a logical kind of uh you know

1678
00:59:34,789 --> 00:59:32,640
move to make and it's really not

1679
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,799
and the main reason is is because

1680
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:36,640
those paradigms they exist whether the

1681
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:38,240
religious paradigms or their ancient

1682
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:41,359
aliens paradigms those are interpretive

1683
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:42,880
models

1684
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:44,880
set up by human beings i'm not saying

1685
00:59:49,270 --> 00:59:46,880
again that there hasn't been some

1686
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,280
influence either by

1687
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,359
sophisticated alien intelligences in our

1688
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:53,599
history or by spiritual beings in our

1689
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,920
history or something that collapses both

1690
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:57,520
of those those models into something

1691
01:00:01,589 --> 00:59:59,200
else entirely

1692
01:00:04,230 --> 01:00:01,599
i'm saying that regardless you still

1693
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,240
have human beings interpreting

1694
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:06,559
anomalous events when you when you look

1695
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:09,280
back at some of the biblical uh

1696
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:11,599
encounters with these otherworldly

1697
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:13,440
beings

1698
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:16,079
it begs the question right is that a

1699
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:17,920
is that a sophisticated non-human

1700
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:19,839
intelligence that might fit with the

1701
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:22,799
ancient alien interpretation or is that

1702
01:00:27,510 --> 01:00:25,200
a being coming from a spiritual domain

1703
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:27,520
only populated by

1704
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:30,079
you know god and then his greatest

1705
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:32,240
creation satan and then a group of you

1706
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,119
know

1707
01:00:37,109 --> 01:00:35,280
angels some fallen some not i mean that

1708
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,119
that's there's so much

1709
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:39,440
definition and specificity to that

1710
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,880
mythology

1711
01:00:43,510 --> 01:00:42,400
and what people often don't understand

1712
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:43,520
is that

1713
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,960
people coming at it from a religious

1714
01:00:48,950 --> 01:00:46,720
perspective often want you to swallow

1715
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,960
the entire mythology

1716
01:00:53,190 --> 01:00:51,119
uh by acknowledging that there may be

1717
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,200
negative or positive spiritual entities

1718
01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:55,359
and beware of that and in the same way

1719
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,799
that we're saying

1720
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:58,960
hold on don't assume that whenever you

1721
01:01:02,710 --> 01:01:01,200
see ancient monolithic structures that

1722
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:02,720
it means that ancient aliens are

1723
01:01:06,069 --> 01:01:05,040
responsible in the same way don't assume

1724
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:06,079
that

1725
01:01:09,109 --> 01:01:08,319
you know satan's minions are responsible

1726
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,119
for

1727
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:11,359
someone being abducted you know from

1728
01:01:14,470 --> 01:01:13,200
their house in los angeles you know i

1729
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:14,480
mean

1730
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:15,280
don't

1731
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:16,640
leap to those conclusions we're not

1732
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:19,280
saying a priori that none of those are

1733
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:21,920
possible but we're saying that beware of

1734
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:25,599
uh going from assertion number one which

1735
01:01:29,829 --> 01:01:27,680
is demonstrable by evidence and leaping

1736
01:01:33,030 --> 01:01:29,839
to number two which is fully an

1737
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:33,040
interpretive uh grid at that point

1738
01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:35,119
absolutely the and the absence of

1739
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:37,599
information makes these

1740
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:38,720
uh

1741
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:40,319
you know sort of

1742
01:01:44,069 --> 01:01:42,240
narrative paradigms like incredibly

1743
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:44,079
attractive right so

1744
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:47,359
uh when you're in the midst of a

1745
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:49,520
phenomenal experience and you have of

1746
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:51,119
which you have no

1747
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:54,400
uh correlate to point to and language

1748
01:01:58,470 --> 01:01:56,000
even to describe

1749
01:02:00,870 --> 01:01:58,480
uh and then over here on at the on this

1750
01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:00,880
table is a whole

1751
01:02:06,069 --> 01:02:03,839
well-defined you know series of of books

1752
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:06,079
and traditions that have tried to

1753
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:07,920
articulate whatever

1754
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:10,079
these experiences happen to be well i

1755
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:11,839
mean wow that's incredibly attractive

1756
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:14,000
this this has the answers

1757
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:16,079
to what i just experienced

1758
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:18,640
um and so i think that that's the that's

1759
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:20,400
often the trap that people fall into

1760
01:02:24,069 --> 01:02:22,480
it's just that they you know that they

1761
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:24,079
feel that

1762
01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:25,760
their world has been turned upside down

1763
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:28,160
and they're in search of a stronghold

1764
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:29,920
something they can grab onto and it just

1765
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:31,440
so happens that these

1766
01:02:35,990 --> 01:02:33,200
mythologies uh

1767
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:36,000
you know are well worn they uh they've

1768
01:02:41,349 --> 01:02:39,119
stood the test of many trials and uh and

1769
01:02:42,390 --> 01:02:41,359
also have believers and and we talked a

1770
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:42,400
little bit about this earlier there's a

1771
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:43,760
certain degree of

1772
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,400
uh social signaling that happens as well

1773
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:48,559
you know so in communities that uh

1774
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:50,880
communities of belief there's a lot of

1775
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:54,480
um sort of seductive power of of being a

1776
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:57,039
part of that group you know so

1777
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,240
uh to be seen as a believer uh

1778
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:02,559
further reinforces the beliefs

1779
01:03:05,829 --> 01:03:03,920
themselves

1780
01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:05,839
uh and um

1781
01:03:08,549 --> 01:03:07,119
you know i think people who aren't in

1782
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,559
those communities just don't get it they

1783
01:03:11,829 --> 01:03:10,319
don't see that they they think there's a

1784
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:11,839
bunch of crazies but you know if you're

1785
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:13,200
a person that is

1786
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:15,839
really uh adrift you know without any

1787
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:16,880
kind of

1788
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:17,920
anchor

1789
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:20,720
to to make sense of your world

1790
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:23,039
the power of the those communities is is

1791
01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:24,720
often overwhelming

1792
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:27,599
um and we're dealing with that uh very

1793
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:30,559
same type of situation in many instances

1794
01:03:35,670 --> 01:03:32,720
with what this phenomenon happens to

1795
01:03:39,910 --> 01:03:35,680
represent or at least to to cause in

1796
01:03:45,029 --> 01:03:41,670
yeah nothing to add there other than

1797
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:45,039
again be beware of these uh pre-existing

1798
01:03:49,349 --> 01:03:47,280
narrative grids and try to be self-aware

1799
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:49,359
enough and you're hinting at this

1800
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:50,400
to be

1801
01:03:54,549 --> 01:03:52,400
suspicious of your desire to want to

1802
01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:54,559
know and to have clear answers and i

1803
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:55,680
would just add that there's that

1804
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:57,599
expression that says

1805
01:04:02,230 --> 01:03:59,839
not only is reality stranger than we

1806
01:04:04,789 --> 01:04:02,240
have conceived of but a stranger than we

1807
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:04,799
can conceive of and that's always going

1808
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:06,480
to be the case whatever is the ultimate

1809
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:08,880
reality here it's beyond

1810
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:10,400
what we've discussed and it's beyond

1811
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:12,160
what we can even really conceive of and

1812
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:14,160
i think the the sooner we can sort of

1813
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:15,920
come to that understanding and be okay

1814
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:19,839
with it uh the the better off we'll be

1815
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:21,599
100

1816
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:23,440
all right well i think this uh this will

1817
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:24,720
tee up our last

1818
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:27,599
clip quite nicely

1819
01:04:32,230 --> 01:04:30,319
and this is a

1820
01:04:33,270 --> 01:04:32,240
a clip that of an incident that you and

1821
01:04:36,069 --> 01:04:33,280
i both

1822
01:04:38,309 --> 01:04:36,079
uh identify with and and like to uh to

1823
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:38,319
talk about so we're gonna tee this up it

1824
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:41,200
um it came from

1825
01:04:44,549 --> 01:04:42,480
well actually i'll just get into where

1826
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:44,559
it came from in a second so we'll let

1827
01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:51,109
in the spring of 1917 in the countryside

1828
01:04:54,549 --> 01:04:53,680
of fatima portugal the blessed virgin

1829
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:54,559
mary

1830
01:04:58,390 --> 01:04:57,119
first started appearing to three young

1831
01:05:01,349 --> 01:04:58,400
shepherd kids

1832
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:01,359
received santos francisco and jacinta

1833
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:04,319
mato each day had to take care of a

1834
01:05:09,029 --> 01:05:07,039
flock of sheep owned by their family

1835
01:05:11,750 --> 01:05:09,039
one day as they were looking after their

1836
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:11,760
sheep they suddenly saw a bright flash

1837
01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:14,160
of something like lightning followed

1838
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:16,720
quickly by another flash in the clear

1839
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:19,440
blue sky they looked up and they saw a

1840
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,520
lady clothed in white

1841
01:05:26,069 --> 01:05:23,200
brighter than the sun

1842
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:26,079
radiating a light more clear and intense

1843
01:05:32,549 --> 01:05:28,799
than a crystal cup filled with sparkling

1844
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:32,559
water lit by burning sunlight

1845
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:34,799
alright so

1846
01:05:40,710 --> 01:05:37,760
that's a great clip and it comes from

1847
01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:40,720
a youtube channel called catholic 365.

1848
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:41,520
so

1849
01:05:44,069 --> 01:05:42,880
you can

1850
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:44,079
immediately understand where they're

1851
01:05:48,230 --> 01:05:46,640
going to go with the interpretation of

1852
01:05:49,270 --> 01:05:48,240
that event and i wanted to stop it right

1853
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:49,280
there because

1854
01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:50,559
and even though you have the kind of

1855
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,039
like you know ethereal angelic music

1856
01:05:57,029 --> 01:05:55,200
playing or whatever um there the

1857
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:57,039
interpretive layer hasn't quite been

1858
01:06:01,109 --> 01:05:59,760
applied to the experience that is being

1859
01:06:02,549 --> 01:06:01,119
recounted there

1860
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:02,559
so the

1861
01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:05,599
the the story is you know that this

1862
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,640
being of light uh a female kind of

1863
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,799
presence appears to be these children

1864
01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:12,240
and that you know that it describes it

1865
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:14,480
and all these you know really uh

1866
01:06:17,109 --> 01:06:15,520
powerful

1867
01:06:18,549 --> 01:06:17,119
quote-unquote angelic qualities and then

1868
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:18,559
they're going to kind of go from that

1869
01:06:21,750 --> 01:06:19,680
point to

1870
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:21,760
it being kind of an image of the virgin

1871
01:06:25,109 --> 01:06:23,119
mary and

1872
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:25,119
and the rest of the story kind of

1873
01:06:28,710 --> 01:06:26,559
writes itself within the catholic

1874
01:06:30,789 --> 01:06:28,720
tradition so i i love this story you

1875
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:30,799
know for many different reasons it's

1876
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,960
very attractive is a story that we can

1877
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:34,960
look at from a phenomenological

1878
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,400
perspective but

1879
01:06:42,150 --> 01:06:38,400
what do you think of when you

1880
01:06:49,510 --> 01:06:43,910
yeah i mean

1881
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:51,589
the very uh the picking and choosing of

1882
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:53,280
which elements of the story are actually

1883
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:54,319
shared

1884
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:56,799
um you know again i see again people

1885
01:07:00,789 --> 01:06:58,720
making this mistake of saying

1886
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:00,799
well listen the catholic church

1887
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:02,720
sent investigators and they spent years

1888
01:07:06,549 --> 01:07:04,960
like a decade looking into this

1889
01:07:08,069 --> 01:07:06,559
surely they're not going to be biased by

1890
01:07:10,549 --> 01:07:08,079
their own prejudice in terms of what

1891
01:07:13,190 --> 01:07:10,559
they ultimately concluded and i'm like

1892
01:07:14,950 --> 01:07:13,200
of course they would be again i don't

1893
01:07:17,270 --> 01:07:14,960
understand why people

1894
01:07:19,109 --> 01:07:17,280
keep making this mistake i mean we we

1895
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:19,119
have these pre-existing paradigms for a

1896
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:21,599
reason because we it helps us shape our

1897
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:24,000
experience and shape and give meaning to

1898
01:07:27,430 --> 01:07:25,760
our daily lives and

1899
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:27,440
when you only have

1900
01:07:31,670 --> 01:07:30,160
you know square boxes no matter what the

1901
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,680
shape you find is you're going to try

1902
01:07:35,430 --> 01:07:32,799
and slam it into one of those

1903
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:35,440
pre-existing slots

1904
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:38,240
and if there's even

1905
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:41,200
you know fairly cursory and superficial

1906
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:43,280
similarities to some aspect of your

1907
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:45,119
tradition then even more so you're going

1908
01:07:50,309 --> 01:07:47,839
to be eager to slot it in there so you

1909
01:07:52,870 --> 01:07:50,319
have a female figure that seems powerful

1910
01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,880
that seems spiritual

1911
01:07:55,750 --> 01:07:54,640
that seems to speak in religious

1912
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:55,760
language

1913
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:57,839
so again from a catholic worldview

1914
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:59,280
absolutely it's got to be the virgin

1915
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,520
mary you know option number one thank

1916
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:03,440
you dang you know it's like

1917
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:05,359
it's it's really that simple i mean it's

1918
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,240
uh when you only have so many options

1919
01:08:11,430 --> 01:08:10,400
and one again even superficially matches

1920
01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:11,440
one of those you're going to quickly

1921
01:08:14,150 --> 01:08:12,960
line it up because you're convinced that

1922
01:08:16,149 --> 01:08:14,160
your view

1923
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:16,159
is complete you know it's comprehensive

1924
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:17,199
so

1925
01:08:20,149 --> 01:08:18,799
what else would you do in that in that

1926
01:08:21,590 --> 01:08:20,159
situation

1927
01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:21,600
but as people like jacques valeta

1928
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:22,719
pointed out

1929
01:08:26,630 --> 01:08:24,640
there were all sorts of elements to the

1930
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:26,640
story that go back even a couple years

1931
01:08:30,789 --> 01:08:28,799
before the miracle of the sun event

1932
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:30,799
that's been so reported on

1933
01:08:36,470 --> 01:08:33,359
where you had classical cases of ufos

1934
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:36,480
and and even the weird ufo

1935
01:08:39,990 --> 01:08:38,400
situation where a craft seems to be

1936
01:08:42,149 --> 01:08:40,000
floating down like a feather kind of

1937
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,159
see-sawing back towards the ground that

1938
01:08:45,749 --> 01:08:44,400
we find in other ufological events in

1939
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:45,759
other words other events throughout

1940
01:08:50,550 --> 01:08:48,239
history that have been interpreted as an

1941
01:08:54,229 --> 01:08:50,560
uh uh you know an example of the ufo

1942
01:08:55,829 --> 01:08:54,239
phenomenon so i read an entire book

1943
01:08:57,749 --> 01:08:55,839
excellent book that uh jacquesville i

1944
01:08:59,269 --> 01:08:57,759
think wrote the introduction to

1945
01:09:01,269 --> 01:08:59,279
that was all about

1946
01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:01,279
seeing this from the ufological

1947
01:09:06,789 --> 01:09:03,359
perspective seeing it as a classical

1948
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:06,799
case of the ufo phenomenon and

1949
01:09:11,749 --> 01:09:08,960
what's ironic here is that anyone coming

1950
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:11,759
from the catholic worldview is largely

1951
01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:14,560
com like oblivious to those other

1952
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:17,120
elements and to the ways that it lines

1953
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:20,159
up easily just as well with the case of

1954
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,640
the ufo phenomenon as it does as a case

1955
01:09:27,910 --> 01:09:24,719
of the virgin mary appearing before

1956
01:09:32,709 --> 01:09:30,470
you know not only that but even even the

1957
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:32,719
you could even argue that

1958
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:33,520
this

1959
01:09:38,149 --> 01:09:36,159
being that appeared began to speak in

1960
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:38,159
language that worked for the people of

1961
01:09:41,269 --> 01:09:39,520
the time right so that's another thing

1962
01:09:42,709 --> 01:09:41,279
to bring in another layer of possibility

1963
01:09:44,630 --> 01:09:42,719
here is that

1964
01:09:47,030 --> 01:09:44,640
if these are again however you want to

1965
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:47,040
define the origin of these spiritual

1966
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:48,480
beings right again there's different

1967
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:50,719
ways we could conceive of that but say

1968
01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:53,440
if they do want to influence humanity

1969
01:09:57,590 --> 01:09:55,760
whether they're coming from you know an

1970
01:09:59,270 --> 01:09:57,600
extraterrestrial source or they're

1971
01:10:01,110 --> 01:09:59,280
coming from an alternate spiritual

1972
01:10:02,709 --> 01:10:01,120
domain or they're interdimensional or

1973
01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:02,719
whatever you want to say

1974
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:04,400
then it's not surprising that they might

1975
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:06,719
use the language and the pre-existing

1976
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:08,800
constructs of the time

1977
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:10,239
to help lead people in a certain

1978
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:12,719
direction because that makes the most

1979
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:14,480
sense like

1980
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:15,920
tell it to them in a way that they will

1981
01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:18,719
understand and that they can comprehend

1982
01:10:23,030 --> 01:10:21,040
but still steer them in a certain way

1983
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:23,040
uh that could also be a possibility here

1984
01:10:28,070 --> 01:10:25,360
but it's certainly uh much more than

1985
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:28,080
just a classical case of a a standard

1986
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:31,120
catholic event of the virgin mary

1987
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:32,480
yeah and i want to touch on a couple

1988
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:34,320
things there so

1989
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:35,679
toward the end there

1990
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:36,960
you know it's important to point out

1991
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:40,000
that uh in just the same way

1992
01:10:43,270 --> 01:10:41,920
the phenomenon and its interactions with

1993
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:43,280
us now

1994
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:46,159
where many do lean on this you know sort

1995
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:48,800
of et interpretation or

1996
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,760
uh

1997
01:10:53,110 --> 01:10:51,760
you know insert your you know hypothesis

1998
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:53,120
of choice

1999
01:10:56,310 --> 01:10:54,560
the those

2000
01:10:57,110 --> 01:10:56,320
in the same vein

2001
01:11:00,149 --> 01:10:57,120
are

2002
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,159
you know he could be equally

2003
01:11:03,990 --> 01:11:02,400
uh

2004
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:04,000
you know false

2005
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:05,040
just as

2006
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:08,239
uh the phenomenon presenting itself in a

2007
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:09,600
you know in the presence of the

2008
01:11:14,550 --> 01:11:12,800
appearance of of a catholic uh you know

2009
01:11:16,390 --> 01:11:14,560
figure so i think we have to be

2010
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:16,400
cognizant of that if we're if we really

2011
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:17,920
are dealing with

2012
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:20,400
an intelligence that surpasses our own

2013
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:22,480
with an awareness of our

2014
01:11:26,709 --> 01:11:25,199
uh our psychology and our you know our

2015
01:11:29,669 --> 01:11:26,719
situation

2016
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:29,679
uh that expands our own uh capability to

2017
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:30,960
comprehend

2018
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:33,360
then there's there's a there's very

2019
01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:35,920
little that we can take at face value uh

2020
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:37,440
per se and i think you know it's

2021
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:39,600
interesting within at least my time and

2022
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:42,159
studying that this topic generally

2023
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:44,640
it does seem as if we've come to a place

2024
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:47,840
where we have been more willing to

2025
01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:49,280
acknowledge all of these different

2026
01:11:52,709 --> 01:11:50,880
biases

2027
01:11:54,149 --> 01:11:52,719
you know we we've gone through a lot of

2028
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:54,159
the theories and and we're now at a

2029
01:11:56,709 --> 01:11:55,280
place we're kind of saying you know

2030
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:56,719
let's hold all of these theories in

2031
01:12:00,550 --> 01:11:58,880
suspension to a certain degree because

2032
01:12:02,310 --> 01:12:00,560
we just you know we just don't

2033
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:02,320
necessarily know so that's that's one

2034
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:03,760
thing i want to touch on because you

2035
01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:04,960
know you went in that direction but the

2036
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:06,239
other thing i was going to mention uh

2037
01:12:11,110 --> 01:12:08,880
where you started and that is reminding

2038
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:11,120
people that uh the catholic church being

2039
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:13,440
such a the large organization that it is

2040
01:12:17,830 --> 01:12:15,760
with the institutional power that it has

2041
01:12:18,950 --> 01:12:17,840
having been in existence for so many uh

2042
01:12:21,189 --> 01:12:18,960
centuries

2043
01:12:23,750 --> 01:12:21,199
at this point uh you know it has an

2044
01:12:25,510 --> 01:12:23,760
institutional bias um the institution

2045
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:25,520
itself just like all of our institutions

2046
01:12:29,830 --> 01:12:27,120
whether they be the us government or

2047
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:29,840
other world governments or uh you know

2048
01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:31,920
the the food bank or whatever it is you

2049
01:12:37,350 --> 01:12:34,480
know in certain student choice it has

2050
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:37,360
institutional inertia and that inertia

2051
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:38,480
eventually

2052
01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:39,760
sort of

2053
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:40,880
escapes

2054
01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:43,600
the capability of those who created that

2055
01:12:48,830 --> 01:12:46,960
organization to control um it has uh it

2056
01:12:51,430 --> 01:12:48,840
reaches a certain sort of

2057
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:51,440
uh size and scope

2058
01:12:53,189 --> 01:12:52,239
uh

2059
01:12:55,030 --> 01:12:53,199
to where

2060
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:55,040
you know that that beast escapes the

2061
01:12:58,950 --> 01:12:56,800
cage if you will if i shouldn't use the

2062
01:13:00,070 --> 01:12:58,960
word beast because so many other

2063
01:13:01,270 --> 01:13:00,080
christian tradition will look at

2064
01:13:03,110 --> 01:13:01,280
catholics

2065
01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:03,120
from a different angle

2066
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:04,719
so when investigators from that

2067
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:07,040
organization appear and arrive in fatima

2068
01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:09,600
to investigate this case they're they're

2069
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:11,679
they're approaching it with that inertia

2070
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:14,239
behind them you know they're looking for

2071
01:13:18,950 --> 01:13:16,560
evidence that confirms what they've

2072
01:13:21,030 --> 01:13:18,960
already believed and this is the exact

2073
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:21,040
same thing that the catholic

2074
01:13:24,790 --> 01:13:23,120
uh missionary efforts did as well

2075
01:13:27,430 --> 01:13:24,800
whenever they went out to indigenous

2076
01:13:29,030 --> 01:13:27,440
populations yes they did

2077
01:13:30,550 --> 01:13:29,040
try to embed themselves in those

2078
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:30,560
communities and tried to learn those

2079
01:13:34,229 --> 01:13:32,400
languages and cultures and they did a

2080
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:34,239
lot of documenting of those histories

2081
01:13:39,189 --> 01:13:36,640
but all of that was in support of the

2082
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:39,199
underlying narrative that this is just

2083
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:42,000
an extension of god's

2084
01:13:45,830 --> 01:13:44,239
kingdom these are god's people this is

2085
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:45,840
you know it's all part of the same

2086
01:13:49,990 --> 01:13:48,320
overall story so i think we have to

2087
01:13:52,870 --> 01:13:50,000
really remember that that that is the

2088
01:13:55,270 --> 01:13:52,880
case but also it it tells us that the

2089
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:55,280
catholic church has a lot of information

2090
01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:57,360
you know it's if we were to get into

2091
01:14:01,590 --> 01:13:59,520
those archives like like some have

2092
01:14:03,430 --> 01:14:01,600
we would see a lot of different accounts

2093
01:14:04,470 --> 01:14:03,440
and stories that are they're told

2094
01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:04,480
through

2095
01:14:10,149 --> 01:14:07,040
the narrative conclusions of that of

2096
01:14:12,390 --> 01:14:10,159
that tradition but contain facts that

2097
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:12,400
you know we would look at with a totally

2098
01:14:17,189 --> 01:14:14,159
different perspective being situated

2099
01:14:21,830 --> 01:14:18,950
yeah absolutely some great points there

2100
01:14:22,870 --> 01:14:21,840
and a few things i want to point out

2101
01:14:24,070 --> 01:14:22,880
so

2102
01:14:27,189 --> 01:14:24,080
number one

2103
01:14:29,110 --> 01:14:27,199
just to highlight to people how

2104
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:29,120
strangely different

2105
01:14:32,709 --> 01:14:31,040
interpretations can be narrative

2106
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:32,719
structures can be even within one

2107
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:34,080
religion

2108
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:36,239
let us bring up how differently an

2109
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:38,560
evangelical audience or power structure

2110
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:40,239
would interpret this event versus a

2111
01:14:45,750 --> 01:14:43,199
catholic one so for people not familiar

2112
01:14:47,110 --> 01:14:45,760
with the nuances of christianity and

2113
01:14:48,950 --> 01:14:47,120
christian history

2114
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:48,960
let's just say that the virgin mary is a

2115
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:50,719
much more important figure in catholic

2116
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:52,320
history than she is in evangelical

2117
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:53,280
history

2118
01:15:00,149 --> 01:14:57,360
as heretical

2119
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:00,159
that or protestant history in general

2120
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,360
that mary is is elevated to this almost

2121
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,280
deity kind of level right even though

2122
01:15:08,950 --> 01:15:07,120
catholics will be clear to say no she's

2123
01:15:11,270 --> 01:15:08,960
not a deity she's not a god she's just

2124
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:11,280
this really revered example of a human

2125
01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:13,600
being but to an evangelical or a

2126
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:15,600
protestant it looks very close to almost

2127
01:15:19,910 --> 01:15:17,440
like a god-like status

2128
01:15:23,430 --> 01:15:19,920
so if this event would have happened in

2129
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:23,440
mississippi for instance in 1917 it

2130
01:15:26,550 --> 01:15:24,640
might have been interpreted very

2131
01:15:28,470 --> 01:15:26,560
differently than where it happened in

2132
01:15:30,870 --> 01:15:28,480
fatima portugal which was largely a

2133
01:15:33,350 --> 01:15:30,880
catholic population so even within one

2134
01:15:35,750 --> 01:15:33,360
religion christianity we're saying

2135
01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:35,760
the specific flavor of christianity is

2136
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:37,600
going to interpret the same event

2137
01:15:41,270 --> 01:15:39,360
differently that's the first thing to

2138
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:41,280
point out

2139
01:15:44,149 --> 01:15:42,880
the other thing i want to say is that

2140
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:44,159
you know i had an opportunity to speak

2141
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:46,880
with joe mcmonagle recently and he

2142
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:48,480
brought up an example of an event that i

2143
01:15:53,350 --> 01:15:50,880
thought was really

2144
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:53,360
highlights this point to the nth degree

2145
01:15:57,270 --> 01:15:55,440
and he was asked to go before this

2146
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:57,280
governmental body and

2147
01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:59,280
and remote view a certain target right

2148
01:16:04,229 --> 01:16:00,800
because they were trying to figure out

2149
01:16:06,630 --> 01:16:04,239
how much accuracy does this person have

2150
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:06,640
what joe actually did was and for those

2151
01:16:10,870 --> 01:16:08,560
not familiar joe mcmonagle is one of the

2152
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:10,880
most psy capable people in the history

2153
01:16:15,110 --> 01:16:12,719
of the world and and worked with the

2154
01:16:17,430 --> 01:16:15,120
stargate program was the cia and whatnot

2155
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:17,440
anyway at one point he was going to be

2156
01:16:21,350 --> 01:16:18,880
called to go before this governmental

2157
01:16:22,070 --> 01:16:21,360
body and and identify this target that

2158
01:16:28,950 --> 01:16:22,080
was

2159
01:16:30,550 --> 01:16:28,960
capacity time and space are irrelevant

2160
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:30,560
he actually identified the target the

2161
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:32,719
day before

2162
01:16:36,390 --> 01:16:34,640
even this governmental body knew what

2163
01:16:38,390 --> 01:16:36,400
the target was going to be which again

2164
01:16:40,229 --> 01:16:38,400
shows you how much this goes beyond our

2165
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:40,239
understanding of reality

2166
01:16:44,070 --> 01:16:41,520
the next day

2167
01:16:46,630 --> 01:16:44,080
right on cue he said i know exactly what

2168
01:16:48,550 --> 01:16:46,640
the target is this is what it is and

2169
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:48,560
there was gasps apparently in this

2170
01:16:52,550 --> 01:16:50,800
governmental body

2171
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:52,560
one uh

2172
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:55,679
senator i believe from a

2173
01:17:00,070 --> 01:16:57,840
southeastern state

2174
01:17:02,390 --> 01:17:00,080
went up to him slammed his like hand

2175
01:17:04,630 --> 01:17:02,400
down on the table and said you sir are

2176
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:04,640
doing the work of the devil

2177
01:17:07,990 --> 01:17:05,920
okay

2178
01:17:10,630 --> 01:17:08,000
then as joe was leaving another senator

2179
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:10,640
from the midwest a different midwest

2180
01:17:16,070 --> 01:17:12,560
state came up and said shook his hand

2181
01:17:18,310 --> 01:17:16,080
and said you sir are doing god's work

2182
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:18,320
that's just to highlight that in terms

2183
01:17:21,990 --> 01:17:20,239
of religious interpretations these are

2184
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:22,000
two

2185
01:17:25,350 --> 01:17:23,040
elected

2186
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:25,360
representatives within our government

2187
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:27,520
who both take a religious perspective

2188
01:17:31,990 --> 01:17:29,520
and still come on down on two different

2189
01:17:33,669 --> 01:17:32,000
ends of that religious perspective and

2190
01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:33,679
they're both evangelical so it just

2191
01:17:37,830 --> 01:17:35,120
shows you how much

2192
01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:37,840
bias and skewing and interpretation is

2193
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:40,480
involved in these events

2194
01:17:46,870 --> 01:17:44,159
i want to highlight that for people

2195
01:17:48,630 --> 01:17:46,880
lastly i want to say that

2196
01:17:50,790 --> 01:17:48,640
i'm aware of someone who's had some

2197
01:17:51,990 --> 01:17:50,800
remarkable experiences a good friend of

2198
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:52,000
mine

2199
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:55,360
that has had a lot of flack

2200
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:56,800
and most of it has come from the

2201
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:58,800
religious community and this is part of

2202
01:18:02,870 --> 01:18:00,880
the irony of this kind of situation that

2203
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:02,880
you have someone who's experiencing

2204
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:05,120
seemingly otherworldly beings who are

2205
01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:07,040
doing good things like healing people

2206
01:18:10,950 --> 01:18:08,480
and stuff like that

2207
01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:10,960
and yet the bias is so strong in the

2208
01:18:14,709 --> 01:18:12,560
religious community

2209
01:18:16,950 --> 01:18:14,719
towards anything strange and

2210
01:18:19,270 --> 01:18:16,960
unidentified being demonic

2211
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:19,280
that they will ignore

2212
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:21,120
the fruit even though ironically there's

2213
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:23,040
a biblical passage that says judge by

2214
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:25,199
the fruit not by the appearance

2215
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:27,120
but again people are very picky and

2216
01:18:30,630 --> 01:18:28,560
choosy when it comes to their scripture

2217
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:30,640
they'll they'll pick the passages that

2218
01:18:34,229 --> 01:18:32,640
support whatever perspective they want

2219
01:18:36,870 --> 01:18:34,239
to put forward

2220
01:18:38,550 --> 01:18:36,880
and so this poor person has experienced

2221
01:18:41,110 --> 01:18:38,560
more persecution

2222
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:41,120
amongst his own religious tradition

2223
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:43,600
than any other kind of group and it just

2224
01:18:48,229 --> 01:18:45,120
highlights how much

2225
01:18:50,550 --> 01:18:48,239
prejudice assumption and interpretation

2226
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:50,560
goes into these things and i just really

2227
01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:51,760
want to highlight that for people i

2228
01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:53,760
think if there's one element that's come

2229
01:18:57,750 --> 01:18:55,520
clear across this entire episode it's

2230
01:18:59,990 --> 01:18:57,760
that

2231
01:19:01,669 --> 01:19:00,000
these are not objective stances in many

2232
01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:01,679
ways there's there's all sorts of human

2233
01:19:04,229 --> 01:19:03,040
bias and it's not

2234
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:04,239
and you and i have both talked about

2235
01:19:08,630 --> 01:19:05,760
this and this both gets us a little bit

2236
01:19:10,149 --> 01:19:08,640
moved as well uh is that people will

2237
01:19:11,590 --> 01:19:10,159
often say oh i don't want to hear about

2238
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:11,600
the religion that's just like the way of

2239
01:19:16,550 --> 01:19:13,600
controlling the people you know

2240
01:19:18,470 --> 01:19:16,560
and and yet there's you know many other

2241
01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:18,480
traditions that have done things just as

2242
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:20,320
you know horrendous kind of thing there

2243
01:19:24,870 --> 01:19:23,040
are atheistic uh governmental systems in

2244
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:24,880
the 20th century that killed more people

2245
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:26,480
than ever happened in you know the roman

2246
01:19:30,870 --> 01:19:28,560
empire or whatever or the entire history

2247
01:19:32,950 --> 01:19:30,880
of the world prior to the 20th century

2248
01:19:35,270 --> 01:19:32,960
so it's silly to say it's about religion

2249
01:19:37,669 --> 01:19:35,280
or not it's not it's a human nature

2250
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:37,679
thing it's our desire to think we know

2251
01:19:41,270 --> 01:19:39,520
it's our desire to jump to conclusions

2252
01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:41,280
and it's our desire to

2253
01:19:44,950 --> 01:19:42,960
have this cookie-cutter answer for

2254
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:44,960
everything anomalous and anything

2255
01:19:52,870 --> 01:19:50,709
religion gets a

2256
01:19:54,630 --> 01:19:52,880
a a bit of a bad rap in part because

2257
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:54,640
it's so easy to

2258
01:19:58,709 --> 01:19:57,360
uh identify

2259
01:20:01,030 --> 01:19:58,719
and

2260
01:20:03,350 --> 01:20:01,040
you know kind of segment away from what

2261
01:20:05,669 --> 01:20:03,360
what is more normative in our culture

2262
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:05,679
today you know so it's easy to look at

2263
01:20:09,510 --> 01:20:07,440
that and say well that's

2264
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:09,520
you know that that's just crazy religion

2265
01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:12,000
i don't i'm not a religious person and i

2266
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:14,320
don't think there's any value into

2267
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:16,159
religious thinking

2268
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:18,480
so why would we even talk about that in

2269
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:21,360
terms of this topic of ufos or the

2270
01:20:25,510 --> 01:20:23,520
phenomenon or what have you

2271
01:20:27,669 --> 01:20:25,520
the bias there is that they are blind to

2272
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,679
the fact that they already are in a

2273
01:20:32,870 --> 01:20:29,280
system of belief

2274
01:20:34,390 --> 01:20:32,880
you know we all operate in a system

2275
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:34,400
that is

2276
01:20:37,350 --> 01:20:36,239
at least for us

2277
01:20:40,229 --> 01:20:37,360
largely

2278
01:20:43,669 --> 01:20:40,239
uh coherent and and gut governing of the

2279
01:20:45,189 --> 01:20:43,679
way in which we operate

2280
01:20:47,270 --> 01:20:45,199
there are going to be incidents in every

2281
01:20:49,990 --> 01:20:47,280
person's life i would argue probably

2282
01:20:52,070 --> 01:20:50,000
every day where we make a decision or

2283
01:20:54,550 --> 01:20:52,080
have a thought that are in some

2284
01:20:56,950 --> 01:20:54,560
contradiction to what we would say are

2285
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:56,960
their core our core beliefs

2286
01:21:00,629 --> 01:20:58,080
you know

2287
01:21:02,629 --> 01:21:00,639
and so i've always

2288
01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:02,639
thought it a little bit absurd

2289
01:21:06,870 --> 01:21:04,080
uh to

2290
01:21:08,629 --> 01:21:06,880
kind of adopt the label of

2291
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:08,639
being a

2292
01:21:12,629 --> 01:21:10,560
ex kind of person you know i'm a

2293
01:21:13,590 --> 01:21:12,639
christian person i'm a baptist person

2294
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:13,600
i'm a

2295
01:21:19,270 --> 01:21:15,840
you know whatever it is

2296
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:19,280
because in my in my own experience

2297
01:21:23,590 --> 01:21:22,400
you know my lived experience tells me

2298
01:21:25,669 --> 01:21:23,600
that

2299
01:21:28,390 --> 01:21:25,679
in every day and every moment there are

2300
01:21:31,350 --> 01:21:28,400
opportunities for me to act and think

2301
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:31,360
and behave in ways that are not a

2302
01:21:34,310 --> 01:21:32,960
hundred percent aligned with whatever

2303
01:21:35,990 --> 01:21:34,320
doctrinal

2304
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:36,000
you know

2305
01:21:40,950 --> 01:21:37,679
facts exist in the tradition that i've

2306
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:40,960
just labeled my myself as the labels are

2307
01:21:45,669 --> 01:21:42,480
you know they really do get in the way

2308
01:21:47,669 --> 01:21:45,679
here and so i think we have to

2309
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:47,679
if i could kind of hammer home a point

2310
01:21:50,310 --> 01:21:49,040
on this episode

2311
01:21:52,229 --> 01:21:50,320
it's that

2312
01:21:55,270 --> 01:21:52,239
in in every person's life

2313
01:21:58,070 --> 01:21:55,280
they're going to come to a moment where

2314
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:58,080
they stumble across a narrative

2315
01:22:02,310 --> 01:21:59,840
that explains

2316
01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:02,320
in clear detail what is happening to

2317
01:22:06,229 --> 01:22:04,320
them in that time

2318
01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:06,239
and it makes sense of the world that

2319
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:09,040
they find themselves and the power of

2320
01:22:12,229 --> 01:22:11,040
that story

2321
01:22:14,550 --> 01:22:12,239
is so

2322
01:22:16,870 --> 01:22:14,560
overwhelming and compelling that they

2323
01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:16,880
will adopt that they will put the that

2324
01:22:20,470 --> 01:22:18,000
cloak

2325
01:22:23,270 --> 01:22:20,480
uh on and they will wear it you know for

2326
01:22:25,430 --> 01:22:23,280
a long time and they will they will move

2327
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,440
throughout the world you know with that

2328
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:27,360
narrative as their guide

2329
01:22:31,030 --> 01:22:29,280
uh and then something's going to happen

2330
01:22:32,550 --> 01:22:31,040
to that person

2331
01:22:36,310 --> 01:22:32,560
something is going to enter into their

2332
01:22:38,470 --> 01:22:36,320
life that will uh sort of tear or rip

2333
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:38,480
away at the fabric that they have

2334
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:40,800
chosen and they will be faced with a

2335
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:42,480
moment of having to

2336
01:22:47,350 --> 01:22:45,280
pick a new narrative that makes sense or

2337
01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:47,360
or be adrift for a time and hopefully we

2338
01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:49,120
all have those moments at least where we

2339
01:22:52,950 --> 01:22:51,120
can safely adrift

2340
01:22:54,950 --> 01:22:52,960
and not you know face any kind of real

2341
01:22:57,030 --> 01:22:54,960
danger i think being adrift for for a

2342
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:57,040
while is actually quite healthy but the

2343
01:23:00,870 --> 01:22:58,800
point here being

2344
01:23:02,149 --> 01:23:00,880
we're going through cycles of this from

2345
01:23:03,830 --> 01:23:02,159
birth to death

2346
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:03,840
you know we we

2347
01:23:08,629 --> 01:23:06,239
we all do it whether it's religious or

2348
01:23:10,070 --> 01:23:08,639
non-religious it's secular whatever it

2349
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:10,080
may be we're doing this and we're doing

2350
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:11,840
it successively

2351
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:13,360
because as we

2352
01:23:16,629 --> 01:23:15,120
age and change and have different

2353
01:23:19,110 --> 01:23:16,639
experiences

2354
01:23:20,470 --> 01:23:19,120
new narratives gain new controlling

2355
01:23:22,310 --> 01:23:20,480
power for us

2356
01:23:25,990 --> 01:23:22,320
and they help us to navigate the world

2357
01:23:29,270 --> 01:23:27,430
yeah absolutely and

2358
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:29,280
some great points there

2359
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:31,280
to sort of

2360
01:23:35,910 --> 01:23:33,679
draw from

2361
01:23:37,590 --> 01:23:35,920
you talked about you know when we get

2362
01:23:39,590 --> 01:23:37,600
into that experience of feeling adrift

2363
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:39,600
when we're we've left one world view and

2364
01:23:43,669 --> 01:23:42,080
we haven't yet found another one

2365
01:23:44,709 --> 01:23:43,679
that's an important point to highlight

2366
01:23:46,390 --> 01:23:44,719
that um

2367
01:23:48,390 --> 01:23:46,400
what usually happens is we have a

2368
01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:48,400
certain world view a certain way of a

2369
01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:51,040
paradigm that is an overarching model to

2370
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,719
explain reality

2371
01:23:55,270 --> 01:23:54,320
and let's be honest all of us want that

2372
01:23:59,430 --> 01:23:55,280
it

2373
01:24:01,270 --> 01:23:59,440
comfortable feeling

2374
01:24:02,870 --> 01:24:01,280
to not know what the heck is going on or

2375
01:24:03,750 --> 01:24:02,880
what could happen to you the next day

2376
01:24:05,430 --> 01:24:03,760
and

2377
01:24:07,350 --> 01:24:05,440
there is some truth to the notion that

2378
01:24:08,870 --> 01:24:07,360
the reason why our ancestors made up

2379
01:24:10,550 --> 01:24:08,880
creation stories

2380
01:24:11,910 --> 01:24:10,560
was so that they could do something to

2381
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:11,920
feel better about going to sleep at

2382
01:24:15,110 --> 01:24:13,440
night and feeling like they knew what

2383
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:15,120
would happen in the morning

2384
01:24:19,669 --> 01:24:17,280
there is some truth to that

2385
01:24:20,629 --> 01:24:19,679
but where we go wrong is assuming that

2386
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:20,639
those

2387
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,400
poor ancestors

2388
01:24:26,790 --> 01:24:24,480
needed these creation stories to make

2389
01:24:28,189 --> 01:24:26,800
sense of the world whereas we don't we

2390
01:24:30,470 --> 01:24:28,199
do

2391
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:30,480
reductionistic materialism is our

2392
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:31,360
current

2393
01:24:34,470 --> 01:24:32,239
model

2394
01:24:35,350 --> 01:24:34,480
the big bang is our current creation

2395
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:35,360
myth

2396
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:36,960
i'm not saying there isn't some truth to

2397
01:24:40,629 --> 01:24:38,560
it but i guarantee you it is not the

2398
01:24:43,189 --> 01:24:40,639
ultimate truth it's the way things look

2399
01:24:45,750 --> 01:24:43,199
it's the most explanatory powerful

2400
01:24:47,350 --> 01:24:45,760
uh you know model based on our current

2401
01:24:50,149 --> 01:24:47,360
understanding and even that's beginning

2402
01:24:52,229 --> 01:24:50,159
to fray at the edges so let's first of

2403
01:24:55,030 --> 01:24:52,239
all dispel this myth that we're done

2404
01:24:56,950 --> 01:24:55,040
with myth making uh or creation myths

2405
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:56,960
we're not it's just a human nature thing

2406
01:25:00,310 --> 01:24:58,960
again

2407
01:25:02,950 --> 01:25:00,320
another thing we you and i have both

2408
01:25:05,110 --> 01:25:02,960
pointed out is that you live some life

2409
01:25:06,950 --> 01:25:05,120
you've been around for a few decades

2410
01:25:08,070 --> 01:25:06,960
and you proceed through different world

2411
01:25:11,430 --> 01:25:08,080
views

2412
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:11,440
and as you do that hopefully you again

2413
01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:13,199
it's not like you escape having a

2414
01:25:15,669 --> 01:25:14,639
worldview that doesn't happen it's just

2415
01:25:20,229 --> 01:25:15,679
not

2416
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:20,239
hold our current worldview a little more

2417
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,239
lightly a little more loosely

2418
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:24,159
than our previous ones

2419
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:26,320
because both you and i have been in

2420
01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:28,239
points in our life where a very

2421
01:25:31,750 --> 01:25:29,679
different way of seeing the world and

2422
01:25:34,229 --> 01:25:31,760
making sense of what's possible

2423
01:25:36,149 --> 01:25:34,239
uh existed for us than what we hold to

2424
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:36,159
to today and then we're this you know

2425
01:25:40,229 --> 01:25:37,760
that's that's just one individual

2426
01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:40,239
lifetime right and i've been through

2427
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:41,760
several iterations like that it's

2428
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:42,719
certainly

2429
01:25:46,550 --> 01:25:44,719
number one makes me hold what i

2430
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:46,560
currently hold to

2431
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:48,080
more lightly

2432
01:25:51,590 --> 01:25:50,080
um but it also

2433
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,600
tells me that if you and i were to have

2434
01:25:55,270 --> 01:25:53,600
this conversation 10 years from now i'm

2435
01:25:57,590 --> 01:25:55,280
going to see things differently that

2436
01:25:59,270 --> 01:25:57,600
that's just an honest way of assessing

2437
01:26:00,709 --> 01:25:59,280
the way i've moved through life so far

2438
01:26:03,350 --> 01:26:00,719
and it's silly to think i've finally

2439
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:03,360
arrived and somehow from here on out my

2440
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:05,760
current world view will will hold sway

2441
01:26:09,990 --> 01:26:08,080
so

2442
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:10,000
yeah this is this is just an overarching

2443
01:26:14,070 --> 01:26:11,840
i think message that's come across this

2444
01:26:15,990 --> 01:26:14,080
entire episode is

2445
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,000
be aware that these

2446
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:18,159
ways of making sense of reality always

2447
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,960
exist they're always with us

2448
01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:22,800
use them as much as they're explanatory

2449
01:26:26,470 --> 01:26:24,719
explanatory powerful

2450
01:26:28,310 --> 01:26:26,480
use them as much as they help you

2451
01:26:30,550 --> 01:26:28,320
navigate through the world

2452
01:26:33,350 --> 01:26:30,560
but don't hold them so tightly that you

2453
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:33,360
close yourself off to outlier data and

2454
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:36,480
to the possibility to grow and at the

2455
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:38,960
end of the day if we only are here to be

2456
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,159
comfortable

2457
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:42,960
and to adopt even spiritual uh teachings

2458
01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:44,960
that make us comfortable we are going to

2459
01:26:50,310 --> 01:26:47,040
close ourselves off from the possibility

2460
01:26:52,229 --> 01:26:50,320
of a much more grand adventure and just

2461
01:26:54,790 --> 01:26:52,239
again pointing back to genres whenever

2462
01:26:56,070 --> 01:26:54,800
you have this adventure story right um

2463
01:26:57,510 --> 01:26:56,080
there's always the point where you don't

2464
01:26:59,110 --> 01:26:57,520
know what's going to happen things are

2465
01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:59,120
on the line right

2466
01:27:04,310 --> 01:27:01,760
it's dangerous i think we need to

2467
01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:04,320
reincorporate that into our way of

2468
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:05,920
living reality to let it be a little bit

2469
01:27:10,709 --> 01:27:08,000
dangerous to let it be a little bit less

2470
01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:10,719
than safe less than tame and when we do

2471
01:27:16,390 --> 01:27:12,800
that i think we we experience a more

2472
01:27:19,189 --> 01:27:16,400
grand adventure than we would otherwise

2473
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:19,199
well said my friend uh i

2474
01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:21,520
think we'll end it there

2475
01:27:24,790 --> 01:27:23,440
thank you all for listening uh to the

2476
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:24,800
show we've

2477
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:27,120
we really enjoy making the show uh and

2478
01:27:31,990 --> 01:27:28,800
hopefully that comes through and and

2479
01:27:34,390 --> 01:27:32,000
what we do and what we talk about

2480
01:27:35,830 --> 01:27:34,400
we are fortunate to

2481
01:27:38,950 --> 01:27:35,840
have the opportunity to speak with each

2482
01:27:41,910 --> 01:27:38,960
other often and often in person

2483
01:27:45,669 --> 01:27:41,920
and we're fortunate as well to have

2484
01:27:46,870 --> 01:27:45,679
encountered many people on this journey

2485
01:27:49,110 --> 01:27:46,880
who

2486
01:27:52,149 --> 01:27:49,120
have decided to to join us

2487
01:27:52,790 --> 01:27:52,159
along the path and they enrich our lives

2488
01:27:56,550 --> 01:27:52,800
and

2489
01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:56,560
both look forward to the people who we

2490
01:28:02,149 --> 01:27:59,679
have yet to meet that will also

2491
01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:02,159
change the way we see things and and add

2492
01:28:07,189 --> 01:28:03,679
to the adventure

2493
01:28:09,430 --> 01:28:07,199
uh that we find ourselves in

2494
01:28:11,830 --> 01:28:09,440
so may the quality of our questions

2495
01:28:14,550 --> 01:28:11,840
shaped by a desire for understanding

2496
01:28:16,950 --> 01:28:14,560
enhance our journey of discovery

2497
01:28:19,270 --> 01:28:16,960
and may our travels broaden the sphere

2498
01:28:22,470 --> 01:28:19,280
of our consciousness reminding us that

2499
01:28:23,830 --> 01:28:22,480
new discoveries beget new horizons

2500
01:28:25,910 --> 01:28:23,840
as always

2501
01:28:27,830 --> 01:28:25,920
adventure awaits

2502
01:28:31,710 --> 01:28:27,840
we'll see you next time on liminal

2503
01:28:35,510 --> 01:28:33,940
[Music]

2504
01:28:41,810 --> 01:28:35,520
[Laughter]